The Defenders Chronology

After I posted my preview for The Defenders I came across The Timeline, a great site devoted to presenting timelines for various shows (including the MCU). While very useful, it's form of citations lacks explanations making it difficult to understand some of their decisions. The site is also trying to make everything fit into the broader MCU, which causes some problems. I've taken what's included for the Netflix shows and done a considerable amount of checking to provide something a bit clearer than my original chronology. For convenience and to break up the walls of text I've colour-coded the information--for characters who crossover I've linked it to the show it's given in). What follows isn't comprehensive for everything that happens in the shows, but rather covers everything with time references (specifics and ones we can make a reasonable guess about). There's a few confusions within the shows, but the biggest is Elektra in DD2, which is impossible to reconcile with DD1 (I get into that below).

SPOILERS BELOW

"Centuries Ago"
Stick tells his story about the origin of the Hand, Black Sky, and the Chaste (DD2.8), including the Hand's ability to resurrect; the Warring States period in China (over 2200 years ago) is far too ancient given the context, so if this indeed has some truth to it, the Warring States period in Japan (1467-1603) seems most likely

17th century
Gao claims to have spent much of this time as a prisoner (IF.9)

1948
Chinese soldiers encounter an earlier Iron Fist (IF.10)

1972
Wilson Fisk's flashback when he was 12 (his father's election campaign and subsequent murder, DD1.8); while the year is never stated, the New York City Council elections occurred then, giving context to 1971's "Brown Sugar" which is heard introducing the flashback; we also see an overdue gas bill that says September (without the year shown) for added context; afterwards Wilson is sent to live on a farm with relatives.

1975
Fisk's mother re-marries (DD1.10, husband #2 who turns out to be gay, but there's no timeline for their divorce or her marriage to her third and final husband)

1985
(October 31) Recording of the medical treatment of Kilgrave (JJ.8); another specific '85 comment comes via Kevin's rugby hero (JJ.9); these were on Reva Connors' flashdrive, which she obtained from Seagate Prison (LC.4)

1984-86

It's unclear when Luke's flashback of his father's infidelity is, although he says he was 7 years old when he noticed (LC.10); The Timeline situates it in '86, despite not using that as the point of reference for when Luke is 17 (see below); thus far Luke is the only Defender whose year of birth can't be clearly deduced (Jessica 1984, Matt 1985, and Danny 1991--these do not match their actors, incidentally, who are all three years older--Mike Colter is 1976, which is likely why Timeline has Luke Cage's DOB as 1979--Jon Bernthal is also that year, but 1979 doesn't work for Frank Castle's timeline)

1986-89
-There are no specific dates provided for the Mama Mabel flashbacks, but we have some clues: Mabel opposed the drug trade and crack specifically (LC.7), with crack hitting the inner cities around 1985; Shades references David Dinkins and Pappy Mason as showing Mama Mabel respect (LC.7)--Dinkins had an extremely long political career, but the most likely times implied are his term as Borough President of Manhattan (1986-89) or Mayor of New York (1990-93); Mason was a drug trafficker in the 1980s (he was in arrested in 1989 and sentenced in 1994)
-Cottonmouth is 14 during these flashbacks (as he says to Mariah, LC.7)

1988
Kilgrave's parents flee; Kilgrave says he was 10 when this happened (JJ.9)

late-1980s
Harold Meachum contemplates pushing Wendell Rand off their building (IF.13); we know this is before Danny was born and while the complex was being built, but nothing else (from 85-90 Harold would have been 22-27 years old)

1994
-Matt is 9-years old (he tells Karen, DD1.1; Stick also references it, DD1.7), with the year determined when he tells Stick it's been 20 years since he's seen him (DD1.7)--while this could be an approximation, there's no other specific to work with; we see his life before and after the accident, along with his father's death (DD1.1 and DD1.2); Stick is called in to help Matt by the orphanage, although he claims he arranged this; he leaves when Matt starts feeling attached (DD1.7)
-Stick trains a 12-year old Elektra, including killing a member of the Chaste to protect her (DD2.12); we're given no year for this, but it seems thematically tied to Matt

1994-98
Luke is 17 and Diamondback 19 when arrested (LC.10), their ages given on microfiche Misty looks at; Diamondback references Prince's "Little Red Corvette" (1983) when telling the story (LC.11); he says he killed a man who attacked him in juvy, so he was moved to an adult prison; he mentions seeing the movie New Jack City (1991) in a context that suggests it's before he went to jail (DC.11); Diamondback says Luke was sent to the Marines because his father convinced the judge that it was better for him than prison (LC.11), something alluded too by Luke when he tells Misty that he learned how to deal with injuries via Force Recon (LC.11); Luke tells Method Man that "P.L.O. Style" (1994) was a favourite song (LC.12), which is likely why The Timeline puts all of this in 1994, despite it not matching their date for when Luke is 7; Diamondback mentions that the bible and The 48 Laws of Power got him through his time in prison (LC.9), Robert Greene's book came out in 1998, meaning at minimum he was in jail at or after that time

1995
(summer) Misty's lemonade story while being interrogated by Krasner (LC.9); it's implied she was a teenager at this time, but it's such a vague timeframe it's hard to place when Misty was 9 and met Pops (LC.3)--likely between 1989-1993, leaning towards the later side

late 1990s
Priscilla Ridley says that Shades was an associate of Cottonmouth's at this time and subsequently served time at Spofford (a juvenile detention center only so-named from 1998-99) and Sing Sing (a maximum security prison)

1998-2004
The earliest Luke Cage could have left the marines and become a police officer (most first-term enlistments are for four years); we're told nothing about his military history and very little about his time on the force (Pops says Luke used to find people (LC.2), presumably referring to his time as a cop (he finds Chico in four hours), while Cottonmouth refers to Luke as a "sheriff" (LC.7) once he's learned his past, but I doubt he's being literal)

2000
(April 13) Jessica's family car crash (the date can be seen on medical bills, JJ.12); Kilgrave says she was 14 when it happened (JJ.8); IGH paid for her care (JJ.12); Dorothy Walker adopts her--she and Trish were schoolmates beforehand (JJ.11)

2001
-The Rand plane crash was 15-years ago from the show's present; Ward was 15, Danny was 10 (IF.1), Joy was 10 (IF.2); there's a continuity error in IF.3 as you can just see 1999 on the tombstone as the date of Danny's death, but this matches nothing else in the show; Danny eventually realises his father and the pilots were poisoned (IF.8)--a poison asked for by Harold and provided by Gao (IF.13); the same poison was used on Elektra (DD2.8), who is cured by Stick, and Colleen Wing (IF.8/9), who is cured by Danny; prior to the crash Harold had set-up a heroin operation in China at Gao's behest (IF.13), something Wendell Rand was investigating (IF.8, 9, 13, Danny said Wendell never went to foreign sites so must have needed a special reason, then Gao says Wendell found out about Harold's arrangement in some fashion); given that Rand is about to expand into China in 2016 (IF.1), it implies this operation was off the books
-At this time Hogarth is an intern at Rand (IF.3), which was her first job; we know that she was already in a relationship with Wendy Ross since she paid her way through school (JJ.4)

2001-05
-Ellison says Frank Castle enlisted as a "kid" (presumably 18-years old) (DD2.6), but with no clues to when Frank was born this is just a reasonable estimate given other information
-There's a Marine Corps graduation certificate on the wall of Frank's home (DD2.4)--the date on it is almost impossible to see, but seems to range anywhere from 1995-99; from other information that seems too early

2003
12-year old Joy wants to be a horse-breeder (IF.8)

2004
There's a lot of confusion about when Harold dies; we're told he dies 3 years after being diagnosed with cancer (IF.4), which makes a lot of sense given that Danny doesn't know he has it when the plane crashes, but three other times in the show (IF.9, 12, 13) Harold has been dead for 13 years (so 2003)--normally I'd go with majority, but it's really hard to make that fit anything else, so I prefer the initial timeframe; his age is listed as 41 in the NY Bulletin article (IF.1); the Hand resurrects him as promised (3 days after his death); Harold tells Danny he met Gao on his death bed (IF.7), but we know this is a lie

2005
-Misty tells Perez its been ten years since she became a detective and that she was paired with Scarfe (LC.6); prior to that, Priscilla Ridley was Misty's lieutenant at the 31st (LC.7)
-Elektra (not a student) is sent by Stick to persuade Matt to join the Chaste (DD2.5-8); while this year is given it creates an issue with the DD1 timeline because Matt meets Foggy in 2010 as a senior, but here they are seen together; Matt would also be 19 or 20 at this point, but if anything he and Foggy look older than they were in the DD1 flashback); Elektra says she left Matt (DD2.5); Foggy says Elektra nearly got Matt expelled (DD2.7), neither of which matches Foggy's comments about Matt only having short-term relationships in DD1.5

2006
-The Ranskahov brothers are in a Siberian prison (DD1.4 with an "eight years ago" tag)
-The Blacksmith says he's known Frank Castle for the better part of a decade (DD2.8), which is most of the time he was a marine (exactly ten years would be 2005)--this doesn't match him telling Frank he taught him how to hold a gun (DD2.12), which might have been hyperbole, but the general framework of Frank's military service isn't something he'd lie about as it's public record
-Karen says Frank was a lieutenant and was awarded the Navy Cross in Afghanistan (DD2.5), both events tied to when he was with the Blacksmith; it's undated, but Frank becomes a scout sniper (DD2.6)
-Frank says he served in Iraq and Afghanistan (DD2.3), Matt adds Pakistan and Iran to the list (DD2.8)

2009
-The Ranskahov brothers get out of prison (DD1.4)
-Mariah says Damon Boone arrived on the Harlem political scene six years ago to challenge her (LC.7)

2010
(fall semester) Matt meets Foggy in his senior year in college (Matt would be 24), as we see Foggy signing up for Fall, 2010 courses (DD1.10); Foggy also has a Bolts Conference Champs sticker on his laptop (representing the 2009 San Diego Chargers) (DD1.10); Elektra is a fellow student in his Spanish class (DD1.10); Foggy later tells Karen Matt's never been with a girl more than a month or two (DD1.5) and it seems uncharacteristic for him to lie

2012
-Matt and Foggy intern at Landman and Zack while working on their law degree (3-years in the US); we're shown Matt's initial efforts as a hero right after he quits; they agree to establish their own practice (DD1.10); after the duo quits Foggy's ex-girlfriend Marci Stahl joins Landman and Zack (DD1.5)
-Luke Cage goes to jail; we know the timeframe because Shades goes to prison for three years (mentions this to Luke, LC.2), and later tells Cottonmouth he did time with Luke when he first got to Seagate (LC.5), implying they were incarcerated around the same time; the only references we get inside Luke's flashback (LC.4) are a conversation with Squabbles' about the 1988 cover of Rolling Stone with Lisa Bonet, with Luke bringing up Beyonce, Nicki Minaj, and Zoe Kravitz as more current hot women; Luke's driver's license is shown (LC.7) but what's on it makes no sense (his DOB isn't included properly, as 12-05 doesn't mean anything; the date of issue, 12-07, could be used as an argument that he got out in July of this year, but as a fake ID isn't strong evidence of anything)
-When Luke escapes, the project Burstein is running is shut down completely (LC.9)

"The Incident" (Avengers); Ellison tells Karen all the servers at The Bulletin were wiped during it (DD2.5); Scarfe saw the incident up close (LC.3); Bakuto references a student of Colleen's who was orphaned by the incident (IF.11)

It's difficult to date Fisk's return to the city, but he approached Gao first (DD1.10); Wesley approached crooked cops Hoffman and Blake 18 months before the show's start (DD1.13, so roughly the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013); we know he recruited the Russians last, DD1.6, using Gao's heroin as a lure; Wesley mentions that Rigoletto's books have been recently acquired by him (DD1.1; Fisk had Rigoletto killed DD1.3); there's no timeframe for when Fisk made Melvin Potter his exclusive armourer, but we know that prior to that Melvin used to outfit other criminals (DD2.4); it's unclear how quickly Fisk pushed out the Irish (DD2.1), as while Nesbitt suggests it was a long time ago, from the timeline it can't earlier than sometime in 2012 (as Fisk's moves all post-date "the incident"); Nobu's connections to Roxxon (DD2.6) are never mentioned by Fisk, but are something he was presumably aware of--despite the setbacks of Nobu's people they are still in operation (IF.7) under Gao

2012-13
There's no context to how long Luke Cage is in prison, but it can't have been for long given that there needs to be enough time for he and Reva to invest in the bar they own (blown up in JJ.11) and for a meaningful marriage

2013
-Frank Castle is awarded the Navy Cross in Afghanistan (DD2.5)
-There's almost no context for the office job and bar scene with Jessica (JJ.5) other than Trish mentioning Jillian Michaels 30-Day Shred (which came out in 2008); in context it seems reasonably close in time to what follows below
-Jessica saves a little girl from being hit by a car; Trish shows Jessica a mock-up of a costume with the hero-name "Jewel"; Kilgrave finds Jessica heroing (JJ.5)

2014
-(January 20) Jessica kills Reva Connors and breaks Kilgrave's control (JJ.6), with the exact date shown thrice on three different medical reports (JJ.2); it's implied Jessica moves in with Trish afterwards for a time (JJ.2); Reva had left Luke instructions on where she'd buried the USB drive (JJ.6); we learn via Claire and Doctor Burstein that neither Kilgrave nor Jessica had complete access to the files (LC.9), as it required Burstein's password
-(July) Kilgrave begins having Malcolm photograph Jessica (he'd been doing it for six months JJ.5)
-(summer) Ben Urich was told he could get an extension on his wife's care a month ago (DD1.3)
-(summer) Beginning of DD1 (there's a New York Bulletin article that provides us with September 5, 2013 (DD1.8), but clearly the year is in error as we're told two years of reconstruction (from "the incident") have revolutionized things for Union Allied, DD1.1; Matt also references the New York Mets bullpen DD1.7 which seems to match-up with the 2014 roster's performance when the show was written/filmed); when Foggy and Matt show up to represent Karen Page (DD1.1) they tell her they've been in practice for 7 hours; this fits with them graduating that spring and then passing the bar

-(summer) ADA Elliot James takes the fall for District Attorney Reyes after she mishandles informants (DD2.3); others (Nicole Kent and Chris Davidson) had similar falls, but no dates are referenced
-(summer/fall) The Ranskahov's and their gang are destroyed (DD1.6), but the Russian mob has re-emerged about two years later (IF.7)

-(summer/fall) Blacksmith appears on the drug scene (DD2.10); I think fall is more likely, as around that time Gao left as Fisk's consortium was disintegrating; when Gao leaves she tells Owlsley that heroin was never her true concern, only a convenience and that it no longer matters (DD1.12), but it's exactly what she's doing subsequently (in DD2 and IF)

-(December) Kilgrave takes Hope Schlottman (JJ.1; we're told it has been a month a few times--by her parents, roommate, and then Jessica when she talks about the anniversary night)

-(winter) Fisk goes to jail (DD1.13)--it's winter as Owlsley is shivering in the cold
-(winter) Marci loses her job at Landman and Zack (it's unclear if she was fired or left); she's rehired by Hogarth, Chao and Benowitz (DD2.5)

2014-15
(spring) Joy Meachum finishes law school (IF.8); based on her age, 2015 seems most likely (she'd be 24), but given her dialogue makes it seem like she's been at Rand longer than a year, so 2014 remains a possibility

2015
-(January) JJ starts--it's been a year since Kilgrave (JJ.1, Trish says so specifically)
-Trish hadn't heard from Jessica in six months; in that time she's become a PI (JJ.1); Trish says she began her martial arts training "when you left" (JJ.3), which could mean when Kilgrave took Jessica, but in context seems more like when Jessica moved out
-Luke tells her he's been at the bar "awhile" (JJ.1), although given the timeframes we get in Luke Cage it couldn't be more than two years; he later tells her the bar was in Reva's name (JJ.12)
-(winter) Luke tells Kilgrave while under his control that there's something between he and Jessica (JJ.12), which runs contrary to Pops calling her his rebound girl (LC.1)
-(May) JJ season ends (this month fits the timeframe Luke provides when he says how long he's been working for Pops, LC.2); Marci tells Foggy that Reyes has been keeping a close eye on Jessica Jones as yet another vigilante to shut down (DD2.5), with the two having met when Hogarth got her off for killing Kilgrave (JJ.13)
-(c.May) Claire says she has worked for a month with no breaks as punishment for helping Luke (DD2.3), but not in a way to be sure she means it's literally been a month since that event
-(spring) The last time Marci heard from Foggy between seasons (she says "months", DD2.5, which is very unspecific, but this is the least amount of time that it could describe)
-(c.April) Grotto executes a man for the Irish and then kills an elderly lady because she see's his face (DD2.3)
-(April 13) Frank Castle comes home (from DD.4 we know it's the day before the massacre); the Blacksmith implies Frank was given the same offer as Gosnell and other former soldiers (D2.12), but it's difficult to believe Frank would have said he was a character witness if that was the case (or when this offer could have occurred)

-(April 14) Frank Castle and his family are gunned down in the firefight between the Irish, Dogs of Hell, and Mexican Cartel (DD2.5); the sting operation was arranged by Reyes to catch the Blacksmith (she admits this in DD2.10), but Dutton (who actually set it up) tells Frank he knew it was a trap (DD2.9); this means that Dutton is imprisoned only a short time before Fisk

-(May/June) Blake Tower becomes Reyes' ADA (he says he came on board well after the Castle cover-up started, DD2.10)
-(June/July) Brett tells Matt and Foggy that the Dogs of Hell were hit (we learn later by Frank Castle) a week before the Irish (DD2.1); despite the attacks here and later, the gang is still in operation a year later (IF.7)

-(July) DD2 begins (heat wave, DD2.1); Nesbitt's comments suggest Fisk recently lost his court case (DD2.1)
-(summer) Shades is released from Seagate; Shades got out of Seagate "awhile ago" (LC.1), but Cottonmouth thought he was still in Seagate; Shades then tells Luke he "just got out" (LC.2)
-(fall) Fisk mentions a conversation Dutton had on the 22nd (DD2.9) without saying the month--it's sunny and seemingly warm, so I'd guess it's August or September
-(September) Misty shows Chico her phone (LC.3) and it says September 23, which fits with the other time references we get (Pops mentions the Knicks 2015 draft (LC.1), which was at the end of June, Mariah mentions Fisk's incarceration (LC.1), and Luke tells Misty he's been working for Pops for five months (LC.2), putting his departure from Jessica's apartment in May)
-(fall) Reyes is killed by men hired by the Blacksmith to implicate the Punisher (DD2.10); Blake Tower remains an ADA afterwards (LC.11)
-(fall) Matt speaks with Gao, who Tower said was a new rival on the scene for the Blacksmith (DD2.11), indicating Gao has been gone for less than a year (she tells Matt she never left, but that seems implausible given what she says to Owlsley in DD1)
-(fall) Matt discovers "the farm" where children are being drained of blood (DD2.9); Bakuto attempts to do the same thing to Colleen (IF.11)
-(fall) The Hand attacks the hospital (DD2.11) and Claire quits because of the cover-up (she then goes home to Harlem, LC.5, referencing both events to her mother and later Danny Rand, IF.5); Claire tells her mother that her former employer is making it impossible for her to find work
-(December 1) Cops try to apprehend Luke Cage (the date is seen on the dashcam, LC.9)
-(December 4) Claire says it's been 28 hours since she found a wounded Luke in her mother's restaurant (LC.10)
-(c.December 6) Luke Cage returns to prison
-(December) Foggy joins Hogarth, Chao, and Benowitz (DD2.13)

-(December) Just before he dies the Blacksmith references something dark in Frank's past regarding Kandahar (DD2.12)

-(Christmas Eve) Ellison says that it's Christmas Eve to Karen; Frank burns his home and takes a CD with "Micro" written on it; Matt reveals his identity to Karen (DD2.13); when Claire talks about Matt's final battle against the Hand she says it didn't go well (IF.8), presumably referencing Elektra's death

2015-16
Joy Meachum hires Jessica Jones to follow Rand board members to find incriminating information, doing so in the fear that Ward's pill-popping will lead to trouble down the line (IF.8); the timing here is inference based on when Joy would have started with the company, how long Ward might have been taking extra pills, and Jessica's own career

2016
-(spring/summer) Danny buys a fake passport in Morocco (IF.2); he also fought in illegal fight clubs making his way to America (IF.4)
-(June) IF begins (June is a reasonable guess, as the article discussing his death 15 years ago is also from June, as seen in a NY Bulletin article with no year attached IF.1, and it can't be 2015 because it takes place after DD2); the Chinese festival we see (IF.1) could be the Dragon Boat Festival (June 9th)
-Joy drugs Danny and he winds up in the Birch Psychiatric Hospital that doubles as a place for Rand to keep people (IF.2)--the longest has been there for 15 years, which matches Gao's influence at Rand
-(mid to late June) A NY Bulletin article says it's been two weeks since Danny was accepted back into Rand when he demands a new medicine be sold at cost (IF.4)
-(July) Joy tells Harold it's been a few weeks since Danny appeared (IF.11)
-(July) It's only a day or two before Ward's attempted deal with Bakuto backfires and Davos kills the Hand leader (Joy mentions "last night" to Ward, IF.13, in reference to being shot by Bakuto, IF.12)
-(July) The next day Ward helps Danny get to Harold (IF.13), ultimately killing him and incinerating the body

Any errors or corrections please let me know.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

The Defenders Preview

The Defenders is less than a month away and with what looks like the final trailer now out I thought it would be useful (and fun) to go through everything we know (excluding spoilers for the first episode, which was shown at SDCC). For convenience (and my sanity) I'll refer to the seasons of the various shows by acronyms (so that DD1 refers to Daredevil season one, etc), and for trailers it will be trailer one (T1), trailer two (T2), Stan Lee's trailer (SLT)), while the teasers are Te1 (featuring the group on an elevator), Te2 (featuring Gao and Alexandra), Te3 (Matt Murdock and Father Lanthom).

SPOILERS ahead for all the previous Netflix seasons

[UPDATE: I've found a decent chronology online that creates some errors with what's below, so here's a more accurate and comprehensive one.]

Let's start with what's happened in regards to the Hand throughout the other five seasons of Netflix prior to the team-up (with a few other tidbits thrown in). Here are the events in chronological order (as best as I can determine--we know Marvel has an actual timeline for all this, but given we don't have access to that, I made do with citations in the shows and what I could gather online, such as here--the point is less about absolute accuracy and more a general tenor of events); I've colour-coded it to break up the wall of text:
-1979 Carl Lucas (Luke Cage) is born
-1982 Jessica Jones is born
-1985 Matt Murdock is born; Elektra is also born around this time (DD2)
-1990 Danny Rand is born
-1994 Matt is blinded by chemical goo via an overturned Rand Corps truck; Stick shows up to teach him how to properly use his abilities, but this relationship is short-lived, as Stick abandons him when he starts to feel attached (DD1)
-around the same time Stick finds Elektra, intended to be Black Sky, but he decides not to kill her because he's become attached to her, instead training her to be a member of the Chaste (DD2)
-late 1990s Jessica's parents and brother are killed in a car accident and she gets her powers via the treatments by IGH for her injuries; she's then adopted by Dorothy Walker (JJ)
-2000 Gao's faction of the hand makes a deal with Harold Meachem--in exchange for curing his cancer (which required his death and resurrection), he allows them untrammeled influence at Rand Corps; Danny Rand survives the Harold-arranged plane crash and vanishes into K'un-Lun (IF)
-c.2004 Elektra is sent to Matt by Stick to recruit him; she develops feelings for him, but he eventually rejects her because of her violent nature (DD2)
-late 2000s Luke Cage is put in jail for a crime he didn't commit (the timing is an inference based on the pop icons he references to Squabbles)--the lower limit seems to be about 2006, as that's when the youngest (Zoe Kravitz) turned 18 (LC); it's unclear how long he spends in jail, when he breaks out, or how long he is married to Reva

-after the "incident" (ie, The Avengers), 2012, Gao, Nobu, Owlsley, and the Ranskahov's come to dominate the New York crime scene (DD1)

-within this time period Colleen Wing is recruited by Bakuto to join his faction of the Hand (IF)
-sometime between 2012-2013 Wilson Fisk returns to New York and persuades the various criminal factions to work together; it's unclear if he understands that Gao and Nobu work for the Hand, but he's solicitous to both, particularly Gao (DD1)
-2013, Jessica briefly attempts to be a hero, but is found by Kilgrave who seizes control of her (JJ)
-January, 2014, Jessica Jones escapes Kilgrave's clutches and Reva dies (JJ)
-autumn of 2014, Matt Murdock is able to confront and shutdown Fisk; in the process the Ranskahov's die and the Russian mob loses power; Nobu is killed and his faction of Yakuza are forced to change tactics (DD1); this change in the criminal landscape leaves space for both Cottonmouth and Diamondback to become more powerful (LC), as well as the Black Smith (DD2), who is able to out-compete Gao's heroin operation; it also indirectly leads to the death of Frank Castle's family (DD2)
-early 2015 the events of Jessica Jones unfold (JJ; nothing Hand-related happens); Jessica's reputation as a PI is heightened by the end and, among other things, she works for Joy Meachem subsequently (IF); it's at this time that Frank Castle's family dies in a botched sting operation (DD2)
-a few months later (spring or summer of 2015) the events of Luke Cage unfold (nothing Hand-related happens); Luke returns to jail until the proof he's found can be used to prove him innocent (LC); he writes letters to new love Claire (IF)
-around the same time the now recovered Castle destroys the Irish Mob, Mexican Cartel, and the Dogs of Hell within New York (DD2); Castle also kills the Black Smith, eliminating Gao's competition for heroin--subsequently Wilson Fisk let's Castle escape from jail in order for him to kill off his competition; Elektra returns to Matt to stop Nobu's (now resurrected) faction of the Hand, who are using the Roxxon Corps to assist them (among the things they are doing is digging a giant hole in Midland Circle); in the process she dies and Nobu is killed permanently by Stick (DD2)
-A couple of months later Danny Rand returns to New York (summer or fall 2015); he comes into conflict with Gao's faction of the Hand (which has just completed work on a new kind of heroin) and is ultimately able to defeat her; he then gets entangled with Bakuto's faction; Bakuto is killed and the Hand is pushed out of Rand Corps with the help of Ward and Joy Meachem, but Gao is freed (IF)

What is the Hand trying to accomplish? Nobu's focus was Black Sky and securing the building the Hand wanted to dig it's hole (which Fisk provides him). Gao, up until this point, has done little more than sell heroin (all her actions, including using Rand to acquire a pier, are related to this--the heroin, presumably, is a method of control as well as being incredibly lucrative). Bakuto seems to be an echo of Nobu, but uses different methods (when he briefly seizes control of Rand his only action is to drain Gao's accounts to his own). I presume all three serve (or served) Alexandra, but we don't yet know why she tolerated their divisiveness. Reviewers have compared her to Wilson Fisk, but Fisk was preemptive in trying to avoid internal strife.

What We Know

The scripts for the show were completed in the summer of 2016 (written by DD2 showrunners Ramirez and Doug Petrie), which is before both Luke Cage or Iron Fist debuted. The show was filmed after The Punisher (even though it will premiere first) and immediately following Iron Fist. This means there was no consideration for how those shows were received. The writing duo also wrote DD2, so that gives us some idea of what we can expect (unfortunately the elements regarding the Hand and Elektra are the weakest parts of that season). We also know that the main villain was slightly re-written once Sigourney Weaver was cast.

In terms of what's happened to the heroes between their shows and the series, we've been given some information:
-Daredevil has given up the mask after Elektra's death and is trying to be just a lawyer (Te3 relates to this); as the Hand has featured in both his seasons, he's intrinsically linked to the plot
-Jessica Jones is struggling to deal with success and the aftermath of Kilgrave; the lingering plot element from her show is about IGH (how she and others got their powers), which isn't likely to matter here; from T1 her PI work links her to events
-Luke is getting out of Seagate Prison (perhaps with the help of Matt Murdock, who presumably Claire meant when she said she knew a good lawyer), and returning to his life as the hero of Harlem; the unfinished business he has is with Mariah and Shades, but is unrelated to the team-up, so from trailers it's unclear what's connecting him to the Hand (non-spoiler reviews indicate that criminals from Harlem are some of those being used to handle the grunt work for the Hand, which acts as his connection)

-Danny is continuing to try and deal with the Hand--that's his objective as the Iron Fist--Gao is free and the organisation in general remains strong
-among the various secondary characters slated to appear in the show the biggest changes are with those from DD, as Foggy is now a partner in Hogarth's law firm and Karen is now a reporter at the New York Bulletin (DD2)

Showrunner Marco Ramirez said "Every one of [The Defenders] is following their own trail of bread crumbs, trying to unpack a mystery in New York." Ramirez has also described the show as a mystery or crime show, making a fairly sharp distinction from what shapes The Avengers, even though this team-up is inspired by it.

The Story of the Trailers

We know from T1 that both Jessica Jones and Misty Knight are pursuing the same suspect (although we don't know why there's a city-wide manhunt for him or why Jessica was trying to help him). He dies, Misty arrests Jessica, and Matt Murdock arrives as her attorney (T1). As yet we don't know why Matt shows up to help Jessica (why not Hogarth, for instance?), as she does not know who he is, so he's doing it for his own reasons (perhaps related to the various activities of the Hand, or it could be that he, too, was looking for the man--there's a scene of Matt on a rooftop (T1) looking down that might be related). I think this could be the second episode of the series, given that the first will largely be a recap for where each hero is at, but it could also form the climax of the first episode.

As for how the others get involved, prior to seeing reviews I thought Luke might get involved because of Misty's work or more probably Claire, but it seems outside the footage shown something is going on in Harlem that gets his attention; from T1 Luke and Danny run into each other while Danny is chasing a man; Claire talks them through their initial conflict. Interestingly, Colleen is absent from most of these scenes--that might just be a trick of the trailer (we see her enter the building with Danny (T1) that he subsequently chases the man out of before having his fight with Luke), but it's also possible she's run into trouble. Incidentally, the two pairings (Jessica and Matt, Danny and Luke) make sense not just thematically but also logistically--the former two both operate in Hell's Kitchen, while Colleen's dojo is near Luke's territory (and thus a place Danny would spend time at).

There's a shot of a building on fire (T2)--while this could be the Midland Circle building after the big fight (see below), I think it's something that happens early--possibly the triggering event for Jessica and others. There's a shot of Claire next to a fire truck (T2) and Luke near sirens that might be connected to this.

The event we've seen the most footage of is a fight inside a big office building (the offices of Midland Circle according to Entertainment Weekly, last seen in DD2). In T2 we see Danny attacking or being attacked in a corporate boardroom chaired by Alexandra (Sigourney Weaver's character)--this scene appeared without that context in T1, but is clearly the one that leads to the hallway fight we've seen in both trailers (as well as the elevator shot we got in Te1 months ago). From T1 it seems as though Jessica and Matt go into the building together (since he borrows Jessica's scarf), but it's not yet clear what brings Luke there (Danny is alone when he either confronts or is confronted by Alexandra). Elektra, now resurrected (see below) fights them here (as seen in T1). While this is clearly early in the series, I'd guess it's at least a few episodes in.

The foursome then goes to a Chinese restaurant (the Royal Dragon) to rest. This is where Danny attempts to bring them together as a team (he mentions the Hand hunting their friends and family and says it in a way indicating all four already know this is actively happening). The various rebuffs to Danny from both trailers come from this sequence. Stick then arrives (T1) to tell them to get it together, but is followed by Alexandra and Elektra. One interesting note is that, while clearly Jessica knows who Matt is, he still has the scarf on in the Chinese restaurant to begin with, but not later, so I wonder if Stick is the one who gives away his secret identity or if he tells them himself--subsequently it's clear the other Defenders know who he is. It seems as though Alexandra talks to them before the fight occurs (T2; given the broken state of the restaurant after the fight). At a guess I think they lose this fight and Alexandra gives them the option to quit (I suspect this because that tends to be how stories like this go--the threat needs to be firmly established). It's incredible to think that two large fight sequences would occur virtually back-to-back like this, but presumably the show has a massive amount of frenetic energy.

Prior to all of this Elektra is resurrected as Black Sky (teased in DD2 and whose purpose we learned in DD1); from comments made she returns with no memories of who she was (this is quite different from the other resurrections we've seen, that of Nobu in DD2 as well as Harold Meachem in IF--seemingly also Bakuto). She's intended to be the instrument that brings whatever Alexandra's plan is to fruition (she speaks of getting back what was once ours, as in the Hand's, but we don't know what that is). Speaking of that plan, from Te2 we know that it's being rushed by Alexandra--Gao councils her to wait, but is told to proceed immediately. This tells us that Alexandra is both in charge of the Hand (as expected) and that her situation is urgent. I believe her verbal confrontation with Stick (T2) happens before the Midlands Circle fight, as she believes the battle is over (presumably against the Chaste; it's possible that they have this talk after she's sent people to attack the allies and friends of the Defenders and believes them neutralized). What we don't know is why she isn't afraid of the Avengers stopping her (this might not be explained, but I expect it will be--for those keeping track at this point both Hulk and Thor have left Earth).

It's difficult to say when the brief scenes we get of friends looking worried is (probably early)--there's a shot of Foggy comforting Karen and another of Trish looking at what's presumably her car either smashed into the ground or slipping into a sinkhole (I'd guess the former, both T2). We've had no shots of Malcolm or Hogarth yet, both of whom we know will appear, while I think Claire's shot of concern is definitely early in the show.

When exactly Matt decides to put on his costume and resume being Daredevil isn't clear, but we see what seems to be a fight between he and Danny (T2) while he's in the costume (minus the mask) that Jessica stops. This is part of a sequence seen in both trailers that seems to be training of some sort, but I wonder if this escalates because of a debate over what to do about Elektra--Matt undoubtedly wanting to save her, with the others (perhaps goaded by Stick) believing she must die. I also think Stick might help teach Danny better ways to control and use his abilities--we know from comments made by Bakuto (IF) that there's much he doesn't understand about what an Iron Fist can do and who better to teach Danny than a member of the Chaste (also sworn enemies of the Hand)?

A later fight scene, one with Matt in full costume, appears to be in the tunnels underneath the city (likely the hole below Midlands Circle). This was barely seen in T1 (Danny fighting Elektra), but several shots appear in T2. It's uncertain the context of the fight, but it contains the biggest Iron Fist moment we've seen from Danny since the money shot in his final episode, as one punch blows back a group of Hand fighters. Whether this fight is leading towards the show's climax or not can't be parsed from what we've seen.

We've had it confirmed that the Punisher will appear in the show (SLT and elsewhere), but how much we don't know. Outside making an appearance we have no idea how much (or little) he'll contribute to fighting the Hand (or how this will connect to his own show, which was filmed beforehand). I'd guess he appears briefly--the show wasn't really designed for him and it makes more sense for his own show that he doesn't have a group of superfriends on-tap.

Beyond this there are a number of scenes that lack enough context to safely place them, but here's what I think we can squeeze out of them. The subway scene (T2) smacks of being towards the end of the show, but it could be shortly after they've all met.

More definitively is the scene of Matt weraing a suit fighting in an alleyway (T1). This seems part of the same phase, albeit beforehand, of the big Midlands Circle fight.

There's a scene of Colleen Wing fighting the resurrected Bakuto (T2). I'm assuming this is earlier in the show, as thus far it doesn't seem like Colleen fights with the group as a whole.

There are a pair of disconnected Luke and Jessica scenes (T2) that could be early or in the middle; one where they are fighting as a team, another where an upset Jessica is storming away from Luke (presumably the latter is earlier).

Finally we have two Daredevil scenes without context. One (SLT) he's leaping from a building to rescue a falling woman; in the other he and Jessica are fighting in what looks like a club of some sort (T2). We know these are later in the show because Matt is in costume.

That's as far as the trailers take us. It's reasonable to expect the first episode to largely be a recap, the second establishing the plot and villain, and things heating up beyond that. I think the dose of secondary characters will be light--we'll visit them all, but other than Colleen none are really able to battle the Hand in their current incarnation (if Trish was Hellcat we'd see her here). What's still unknown is what Alexandra (or the Hand) is trying to do. One of the frustrations of Iron Fist is the uncertainty of what the mystical ninja's were doing, but at last we will get some answers. I also expect Elektra to change sides--it's cliche, but also what happens to her in both of her comic book origins. I'm not sure how the show will make this interesting as it's entirely expected--perhaps she does it for selfish rather than romantic reasons (I don't think the show-romance between she and Matt has worked, so they're better off moving away from it).

The show will also serve as a way for Danny to grow up. In the comics Danny is a funny, light-hearted character, but to service the plot in his own series we saw none of the former and only a little of the latter. Given how cynical Matt and Jessica are, and how much of a loner Luke is, Danny is important connective tissue for the group. I'm also interested to see if the show serves to get rid of the Hand as central villains--this will be their fourth appearance (DD1, DD2, and IF) and for me that's enough--but they've been tied strongly to IF so we shall see.

Another interesting question is what impact this will have on the respective series'. Cheo Hodari Coker (LC) basically ignored the events of JJ (other than Luke's relationship with Reva; it was one of my major complaints about the show), while both showrunners of DD have been quite faithful in dealing with events occurring in other shows. Given the not-so-subtle hints that Misty will be joining the second season of Iron Fist I'd like greater awareness throughout, and I think Netflix would do well to follow the MCU's example to have more crossover between the shows. Time will tell.

Reviewers have seen the first four episodes of the series and the sentiments have been generally positive (the negatives coming from those who've been routinely negative about the shows previously). For those of you used to that catch-all criticism of MCU films being the colour-palate, here the default is "slow". Any time someone is reduced to things like that as a criticism they're simply looking for ways to criticise. In general I expect the show to both review well and be well-received by fans.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Marvel TV News Update

I speculated back in May that the new Fox Marvel TV shows were a possible indication that they had been traded for the tarnished Fantastic Four and that's what a source for Den of Geek reported (officially denied, for whatever that's worth). While the rumour may be incorrect, clearly something was given to Marvel in order for Fox to brand-build on TV; I suspect we'll learn what sooner than later.

After some optimistic speculation last time about the inclusion of the Netflix characters in Infinity War, I'm leaning the other way now (that it won't happen, despite the recent rumour that Daredevil will appear in the untitled fourth Avengers film). This isn't due to any any particular news (although the double Nightshade casting, see below, seems indicative), but more a matter of logistics. Even if both movies are in the two and a half hour range, there's precious little time for such an inclusion. With that said, I still think appearances in future MCU films will happen--there's no downside to it, other than whatever leftover hostility Kevin Feige has towards the TV division. There remains a small chance that the TV universe will be separated completely from the MCU (ala DC), but I think that would only hurt the brand so I don't think that's in the cards.

It's a funny thing to be hyped for The Defenders while having no interest in their antagonists, the Hand. As I've mentioned before I hope the show puts an end to them (except, perhaps, for Iron Fist) so we can get back to more interesting villains. That aside, we have one piece of casting news (via IMDB, so all the usual caveats):

• Architect - likely the Elektra character (created by Peter Milligan and Mike Deodato Jr), who lasts just six issues; sadly this comic run is not available on Marvel Unlimited so I haven't been able to read through them

Luke Cage casting (featuring two of the five options Comicbook.com suggested back in December, along with my favourite pick from that selection):

• John McIver (who is or becomes Bushmaster) - created by Chris Claremont and John Byrne, he debuted as an Iron Fist villain back in 1977 (eventually facing Luke Cage); he's a street kid with a violent streak who becomes a gang lord (a lot like Diamondback, admittedly), who has a romantic interest in Misty Knight; eventually Noah Burstein mutates him (giving him superior strength and durability); in the comics Bushmaster dies (his mantel picked up by his brother Quincy). For those with Marvel Unlimited here's the reading material chronologically: Iron Fist #15, Marvel Team-Up #63 (Iron Fist and Spider-Man), Power Man #48-#49, and Power Man and Iron Fist #67 (McIver's death)
• Tilda Johnson (who is or becomes Nightshade) - A more ubiquitous villain (created by Steve Englehart and Alan Weiss) who originally faced Captain America (1973); she eventually becomes a hero (an ally of Misty Knight), but I suspect that's a long way off. Born in poverty in Harlem, she becomes a brilliant scientist, using it for criminal enterprise. For those looking for earlier material on her (chronologically): Captain America #164, #189, Power Man and Iron Fist #51-#53, Marvel Team-Up #3 (Iron Fist, Power Man, and the Hulk), Power Man and Iron Fist #110; she later has an extensive run on Mark Gruenwald's Captain America as an antagonist (which likely isn't relevant), but Christopher Priest's Black Panther run might have some insight (#16-#17, #39-#41, #43-#45, and #48)

What's interesting about this is that Nightshade has been cast in Black Panther (presumably reliant on Priest's work), which is the first time the MCU and Marvel Entertainment have cast different actors in the same role. This news comes from a now deleted Tweet from Nabiyah Be, in which she included this image:

This is strong evidence of the divide between MCU and Marvel Entertainment, as clearly Cheo Hodari Coker didn't care what Ryan Coogler was doing (the former casting the role after the latter).

Digging into what we might expect in Luke Cage: all the Netflix showrunners have remained pretty faithful to the source material (in spirit if not always specifics), so I'd expect these versions to stick fairly close to their histories. While Mariah and Shades remain from season one as antagonists, presumably McIver either joins or is a rival to them in criminal enterprises--perhaps working in tandem with Johnson (the former may also have a connection to Luke via Seagate Prison). I also wonder if Diamondback will return--I'd think they'd wrap up that storyline, but it remains uncertain at this point.

Having filmed for over three months, surprisingly not much has been leaked or confirmed about the show's second season. The assumption at this point is that Nuke will be the primary foe, tying into the IGH material featured in the first season. What we do have is a casting call from a few months ago that includes three series regulars and another that's recurring. MCU Exchange makes the following guesses for who these characters could be (pointing out that Jessica Jones doesn't have much of a roster of characters to borrow from; they are listed with the regulars first):

• Dr. Karl Malus - a minor character who has bounced around the Marvel universe in limited fashion; his primary schtick is giving people powers through experimentation--he eventually becomes Carnage for awhile (a development we can ignore); the idea of him appearing is certainly plausible, although given how generic the role description is it could be a show-creation; chronologically his earlier appearances: Spider-Woman #30-#32, Iron Man Annual #7, Captain America #308, #328-#331, Fantastic Four #306, Captain America #363-#364, Avengers Spotlight #29, Captain America #375-#378, Doctor Strange #27, Cage #13-#14, Captain America Annual #12, US Agent #2, and Thunderbolts #44.
• Typhoid Mary - a major Daredevil villain (created by Ann Nocenti and John Romita Jr.), she is the second of two potential selections MCU suggests for this particular casting call, but by far the most interesting (the other is addressed below); ultimately it strikes me as wishful thinking; while the idea of having a major female villain is quite likely, there's nothing about the casting call that suggests Mary Walker other than her height (she's tall); it's far more likely she'd be reserved for Daredevil, where he is accidentally responsible for making her into who she is (she also has connections to the Kingpin)--while she could easily be compared to Elektra, because of the version of the latter that's been used the similarities wouldn't be as apparent; the role, without any announcement of who it is, has been cast (Leah Gibson); early reading for her: Daredevil #254-#257, #259-#263, Power Pack #53, Captain America #373-#377, Daredevil #284, #292, #294-#295, #297, Marvel Presents #110-#115, Marvel Presents #123-#130, Daredevil: Man Without Fear #2, Marvel Presents #150-#151, Spectacular Spider-Man #213-#214, Astonishing Spider-Man #1, and Typhoid #1-#4
• Ian Soo (aka Telekinian) - implies a gender-swap (male to female); the casting call didn't designate ethnicity, so presumably it was open, but given that the actress cast (Gibson) is white I think it's extremely unlikely that she'd be playing the Asian-character; the theory was that because the character was created for the most recent Hellcat comic and is bisexual it would fit, but it's a tenuous connection that doesn't match the other aspects of the call sheet
• Otis Johnson (the second Marvel character of that name) - would be race-swapped (white to Latino); the MCU likes him because of his connection to Misty Knight/Colleen Wing and that he seems like a dorky version of Luke Cage, but that awkwardness does not fit the casting call description at all and if their other guess (below) is correct this would be more than overkill; I suspect this is an original character (all his appearances are in either Heroes for Hire volume 2 (#2-#8) or Daughters of the Dragon (#2-#3, #5-#6))
• Paladin - another race swap (white to black); he's an original Daredevil villain (created by Jim Shooter and Carmine Infantino) that's seen as a Luke Cage stand-in (since that romance isn't likely continuing in Netflix continuity); it's reasonable to expect the show to stick with Jessica's interracial romance so it's an understandable theory; Paladin is a fairly ubiquitous minor character who has bounced around Marvel for decades as both a hero and villain, but he has connections to the other Netflix Defenders characters; the casting sheet doesn't require this interpretation, but of all MCU's suggestions this one seems the most likely to me; for early reading: Daredevil #150, #152, Marvel Premiere #43, Defenders #62-#63, Daredevil #154, Marvel Team-Up #108-#109, Avengers #251, Peter Parker #105-#106, and Avengers #271

We're finally getting more casting listed on IMDB (usual caveats):

• Marion James - played by veteran actress Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio; there's no character with this exact name in Marvel and no "James" or "Marion" who seems appropriate, so she seems to be a show creation
• Geiger - while matching the name of a very minor character from Doc Samson, the listing for the show is male and the character is female and not very suited to either the Punisher or Netflix (as she's super powered), so I think this is also a show-original

There's also a listing for Turk Barrett to appear in the show--a crossover from Daredevil (and Luke Cage) that would make sense, but IMDB has been wrong about this sort of thing before (listing Misty Knight for Iron Fist is an example), so we shall see.

While doing my research for this I came across this 2015 rumour from Screen Geek, which discussed potential new Netflix shows that included not just the Punisher, but also Moon Knight, Spider Woman, and Deathlok. While analysis I read elsewhere described this simply as someone's inspired wishlist (which seems true), it was almost correct for the year of the Punisher show (2018 was the prediction) and that Jigsaw would be the villain (or, at least, a villain). Incidentally, the Bushman said to face Moon Knight is not the one appearing in Luke Cage, but rather Raoul Bushman (an entirely different character created by Doug Moench and Bill Sienkiewicz). I missed this particular Moon Knight rumour when I was compiling them several months ago (so we can say such rumours have happened every year since 2014). Incidentally, and I put this here because I don't know where else to place it, Comic's Explained has two Moon Knight videos--in the first he says he's just Batman, but five months later the title is "He's Not Just Marvel's Batman"--I find that amusing. Spider Woman, incidentally, is likely too super powered for television.

Casting for Freeform's New Warriors has finally been announced, but since I'm not familiar with any of the actors I don't have strong opinions about it (other than they are older than the characters are portrayed in the comics). How well will a comedy superhero show work? It's down to the writing and performances.

Critical ratings for shows and movies rarely shift over time (outside of those that reach cult status). That said, viewer ratings do change over time, regressing to the mean (or rising to it). I was curious, years later, how the various Netflix shows had normalized, but Rotten Tomatoes voters don't follow-up on shows so it's a useless measure. IMDB does continue to update ratings, although I can't figure out how you divide things up by season (the votes for individual episodes are a very small sample-size); I've listed the number of votes because I think it's relevant--the larger the number the less likely vote-brigading and initial buzz is a factor:

Daredevil 8.7 (250k votes)
Jessica Jones 8.2 (125k votes)
Luke Cage 7.7 (65k votes)
Agents of SHIELD 7.5 (150k votes)
Iron Fist 7.1 (54k votes)

While this doesn't exactly reflect my opinion, it does seem close to what you'd expect--I think Jessica Jones and Iron Fist should be higher, but neither are criminally low.

I don't care about awards one way or another, but I was amused when Tilda Swinton won a Saturn Award for Doctor Strange. It's a slap in the face to the small number of critics who attacked her casting (and went on to bury Iron Fist), albeit one that will have no impact on the next rubicon of outrage to come (Nick Fury in Captain Marvel could be next).

It's hard to find interesting criticism of both Marvel TV and the MCU at large. There are plenty of opinions out there, but most of them lack depth--a product of whatever echo chamber the proponent resides in (for example the host of this video; another is the MCU Podcast--via the link a host talks about how he's not excited for the Inhumans and his only specific comment is that they brought up guest stars in an interview but didn't expand on it--wtf? His equally clueless cohost thought Medusa had been largely cut from the show because she wasn't featured prominently in the trailer--what planet are these guys on?). Most of what I see or read is someone simply saying X is good/bad, which isn't criticism. What's interesting are the reasons justifying whatever conclusion is being made (albeit deep discussions on things like colour-palate are generally just a ruse to allow the critic to beat on something that's otherwise difficult to criticise). It's also not that useful to talk about performances--it's unavoidable, but there's no way to discuss it productively since it's down to personal preference (if I say so-and-so was great and you thought they were awful, how can those opinions be bridged?). This applies to other things (like "there's too much CGI"--as if there's a magical measurement over what is or isn't "enough"). A good reviewer will tell you what they do or don't like when it comes to personal taste before they get into their review--this allows you to judge whether or not their opinions are likely to match your own--but not enough of them are open and clear about that. The kinds of things that interest me are criteria like: did the plot make sense? Do the characters undergo a story arc? Etc. These are useful elements in a review, but they are rarely focused on.

Somehow I missed Amy Pascal's racist comments back in 2014 (revealed via the Sony email hack, which she apologized for when they were revealed)--this is old news, but I hadn't heard about it, so I thought I'd mention for others who also missed it. Whatever you think about the particulars, I'm shocked this comes from someone so outspoken on social issues--if you preach you need to be consistent.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Marvel TV News Update

It's been awhile since my last post and the wheels of both the TV arm of the MCU and it's big brother on film have been turning. An incidental thought before I dig into it: it's funny how all the characters Marvel reacquired who had their own films have wound up on TV rather than in cinema--I'm not sure if that's due to worries over brand confusion, doubts about their ability to sell tickets, or what. The full count: Daredevil (Fox film in 2003, now on Netflix), Elektra (Fox film in 2005, now a supporting character on Netflix), The Punisher (three films from Lionsgate from 1989-2004, now getting his own series after being a supporting character on Netflix), Ghost Rider (two films from Colombia (Sony) in 2007 and 2012, now a supporting character on Agents of SHIELD). The only exception thus far is Blade (three films from New Line (Warner) from 1998-2004), and I have more to say about him below.

The Inhumans official trailer dropped. It's not bad (despite a lot of negative buzz), although I think they would have been better served using more shots that emphasize what using IMAX is doing for them. As it stands it doesn't look as polished as Netflix, but it's still early and effects are being worked on--it's worth pointing out this trailer was cut almost two months ago so everything is very raw. I'm still not sold on Serinda Swan as Medusa, but it's an opinion that could easily change since we've barely seen her act in the role. Having Iwan Rheon (Maximus) do most of the talking in the trailer is a smart choice.

With the announcement that The Punisher will air in November (possibly November 14th, three days before Justice League), it's made me wonder what the Netflix plan is now that the full cycle of Marvel shows is fully in swing.  Here are the release dates we've had/are officially announced:

2015
April - Daredevil
November - Jessica Jones
2016
March - Daredevil
September - Luke Cage
2017
March - Iron Fist
August - The Defenders
November - The Punisher

The Punisher's post-production will finish around July (based on the usual turnaround of the other shows), meaning the choice to put it a few months after The Defenders is an intended gap (whether this has to do with giving space internally for other Netflix shows or to make space for Inhumans is unknown).  I think Netflix could easily get away with doing more shows and narrowing the gaps.  If we imagine four shows in 2018 it could look like this:

2018
February - Jessica Jones
May - Luke Cage
August - Daredevil
November - Iron Fist

This would put a second season of Punisher arriving in February of 2019.  This is all optimistic speculation, but it's plausible.  If, instead, they stick to a rotation of three releases a year, we'd get something like this:

2018
March - Jessica Jones
August - Luke Cage
November - Daredevil

Going back to The Punisher, if we can trust IMDB (keeping the usual warnings to take the site with a grain of salt), it appears as though Frank Castle's dead family is going to appear quite a bit--presumably in flashbacks. This would be an interesting approach to humanize Frank and prevent him from being simply a vigilante.

If/when we get the announcement of a second season of Iron Fist it seems like Finn Jones wants what a lot of critics want: the show to be more mystical. Putting aside the cost of doing so for a moment (and yes, ninjas are cheaper than most kinds of mysticism), I find that desire puzzling. In terms of comics, Iron Fist has rarely had his own series (roughly 50 issues in the 70s, less than 30 issues of The Immortal Iron Fist in the 90s...and that's pretty much it). This tells you that, while Iron Fist has been a popular character, on his own it's been a struggle (only the second of those two runs is strongly mystical).  Danny Rand has worked best in combination with Luke Cage in Heroes for Hire (and vice versa), something with minimal mystical content. However much people love that mystical run of the comic, it clearly doesn't resonate with fans--people like the humorous Danny Rand hanging out with his buddy. I say this as someone who really enjoyed The Immortal Iron Fist, but that run has it's own problems: why do we care about K'un-Lun? Other than Danny being raised there, nothing really separates it from the other immortal cities. They fight over access to the mortal realm (for whatever reason), but our only attachment to it is via Danny's--that's extremely slim pickings for plots. What could the show really do with it now? All the comic run offers is the tournament of champions (partially spoiled by season one) and then the champions getting together to fight the eighth city. That's about it other than the flashbacks to alternate Iron Fists and Zhou Cheng trying to kill Danny (also spoiled by season one). These plots can only function with an audience loving Danny Rand and that's a lot to hang on Finn Jones. Going back to the dollars and cents that matter, it's difficult to imagine Netflix being able to properly do the mystical side well. In the end it puts the creative team in a catch-22; what the critics want isn't something the show can afford to do, but the popular version of Danny isn't feasible because Luke Cage is locked away in his own series. Personally I'd double down on the corporate stories--critics whined about this immensely, but it's not an element covered by the other shows and also presents problems for Danny he can't just punch his way out of it. What do I think will happen? I have no idea, other than we'll see more ninjas.

Speaking of ninjas, rumours about a Blade reboot or TV series have been kicking around for quite some time (eg), and Kevin Feige recently said "I think it would be fun to do something with him one day." This is incredibly vague and I don't want to read too much into it, but given that Feige is in charge of the movie part of the universe it might imply that Blade is looking at a cinematic return at some point. This would run against what's happened to all other reacquired characters who had prior film-releases (see above). Blade was a much more successful franchise, so it would be an interesting decision to put him in the movies. In terms of tenor I think Blade fits better in the Netflix model, but time will tell what we get (if anything). The character, incidentally, hasn't appeared in a comic since 2010 (although I believe a new series featuring him is coming soon), nor had a series since 2006 (that one intended, no doubt, to help promote the short-lived Spike TV series at that time), although concurrence in the comics is hardly a requirement for adaptation.

Incredibly, despite all the rumours (the one above, those about White Tiger, Namor, and Moon Knight (link above)), no new series' have been announced. This silence comes in the face of the active production of numerous other shows (Cloak & Dagger, Runaways, New Warriors, and The Inhumans). I have no idea if it's simply that Netflix has yet to greenlight another show (or shows) or if they're holding back the announcements (either for an event or simply waiting for The Defenders to drop). Incidentally, in terms of the status of these characters in comics other than Blade (his is mentioned above), the Angela Del Toro White Tiger has been retired since 2010, last appearing simply as herself in 2016; Namor is a mainstay in the universe, but his last solo series was in 2003; Moon Knight has a current series (helmed by Greg Lemire). As mentioned above, their status in the comics isn't particularly relevant.

One character whose name has been dropped to potentially appear is the Chris Claremont-created Captain Britain. Since the person musing about it was Feige my initial presumption was that he'd appear in film, although the possibility of a TV-version seems stronger once I looked into it, as his comments reflect rumours from more than a year ago about a TV series (it could have been one of the four pilots shot last spring/summer, one of which is the source of the White Tiger rumour mentioned above). For those who don't know he's Psylocke's older brother (created before she was, back in 1976), but he's not a mutant and therefore not a Fox property. Unlike a lot of the characters Marvel controls I actually read a version of the character back when he headed the mutant spinoff comic Excalibur. He's a mystical character (ala Doctor Strange and Iron Fist), but one who isn't effects heavy. This also gives me an opportunity to mention I'm one of the only people who prefers Betsy Braddock before Claremont turned her into a ninja (that includes the earlier artwork before we got the typical Jim Lee pin-up version).

The Sony stuff is below, but I'm using the picture because it's both Feige looking awkward and a callback to his tenacious but ineffectual denials. I mentioned last time that he'd finally admitted the TV and movie universes might cross over...and then he promptly denied it again. What I think is happening is Feige likes surprises and wants maximum impact for them--think of how long he denied the deal with Sony for Spider-Man and then how long he denied he would debut in Captain America: Civil War. We see this behaviour going on in the face of Amy Pascal's comments (see below) and I think, ultimately, that's also what's happening with Marvel TV. For years we've been told "it's all connected" and outside of a few cameos early on in Agents of SHIELD (in the first two seasons when Joss Whedon was still around), it's been a one-way street to the movies. Feige is well-aware that part of the appeal of the Marvel shows is their connection to the MCU proper and I think acknowledgement could be on its way. That said, I think we'll get nothing but denials until it happens.

I'd mentioned last time how odd it was that Sony was happily announcing all sorts of comicbook movies that were not in the MCU. At first it seemed like Sony was trying to set up it's own Spider-verse, but then it was reported they would be disconnected even from each other. It was difficult to make any sense out of what they were trying to do. Amy Pascal (of Sony) then said yes, indeed, it's all connected and part of the MCU...and then it got walked back and denied, before both Pascal and Feige made it even more convoluted (a "separate Sony world" that's "in the same reality"--what?). It's one of the most bizarre, hilarious, and frustrating things I can recall related to the MCU. It's a bit like "are the TV characters going to appear in the movies"--the answer is generally no, but not always no, and the "no" makes little sense in terms of both the logic of the shared universe and giving fans what they want. Most explanations I've seen (here and here) suggest a Netflix-like similarity in context, but then what sense can you make in Feige saying "never say never" to Spider-Man appearing in Venom? If Tom Holland appears in these films (as you'd expect him too), then you can't really say it's not part of the MCU--the whole thing is a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

I think Armin's initial theory is one that makes sense, because you can't have Spider-Men based characters without Spider-Man. Sony would lose the hype and stability of being part of the MCU, making their projects as close to dead on arrival as possible. This leaves only a few possibilities (in ascending order of probability): 1) Pascal misspoke on multiple occasions and is unable to simply say "no" to simple questions, 2) Pascal made her comments to pressure Marvel into expanding their deal, 3) Pascal unintentionally spoke about an expanded agreement thinking she was being vague enough not to stir the pot, 4) Pascal intentionally spoke about something under wraps to help build hype for future Sony projects. I don't believe #1 and I think #2 is just too hamfisted to be possible, so we're left with the latter two options. The subsequent backpedals seem like Feige trying to temper expectations ahead of whatever reveal or surprise is planned.

As an adjunct to this I want to address something I see repeatedly from some critics about how they wish there were more standalone comic movies without everything being connected. Marvel and DC comics take place in integrated universes--to separate the characters out is artificial and to try to impose that is against the spirit of the medium. There are comic book characters that either exist on their own or in their own particular reality (ie Judge Dredd), but if you want a Thor or Superman movie, to separate them out from the other characters is to impose a rift that's not a part of the fictional milieu that's shaped them. It's a complaint I'm tired of hearing and it mostly comes from people who are either not comicbook fans or people who like older TV and movie comic book adaptations before the MCU innovation. It's fine for people to prefer that, but at least acknowledge the medium is finally doing what it's supposed to do.

I love Joss Whedon--who doesn't? From the days of Buffy through to Firefly and the Avengers--there's lot's to love. When he left the MCU he said he wanted independence--to make the movies he wanted without interference or the obligations of a shared universe..and just a year later he started helping Zack Snyder with Justice League prior to taking over the film and accepting the director role for Batgirl. I have a lot of sympathy for Joss, but for a guy who was tired to dealing with a studio's shared universe it's more than a little odd to exchange one for another having done nothing in between (with apologies to The Letter Carrier). I'd love to know if it was simply butting heads with the now removed Ike Perlmutter that pushed him on, the mixed reaction to Age of Ultron, or both, but clearly a shared universe isn't what bothered him.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)