A Multiverse of Member-Berries
For a long time I have been fighting against the tide of the MCU planting memberberries across itself to connect other Marvel IP to the MCU. Why is that? I'm not inherently opposed, but I thought it went against the way Feige operated. As I went through it in detail two months ago, conventional wisdom was that Feige insisted on creative control of his IP and, if that's correct, there's no room for anything he didn't have a hand in. This idea seems to be dynamited by recent events, but what does that retrospectively mean for Feige's approach? It seems as though it was aimed at destroying Isaac Perlmutter's creative impact at Marvel (via Jeph Loeb). What about his approach to Sony, as Feige couldn't stop talking about how detached Sony films were from the MCU? This, apparently, was a negotiating tactic. If that's the case, does Feige fear including the questionable quality of most other Marvel output? I suspect he thinks by pushing those events to other universes he can get the goodwill of including them without being impacted by their relative success. So why do it? Clearly it provides value to Disney for the Fox purchase, it makes Sony happy, and it commits Feige to absolutely nothing going forward--it's a waive goodbye. Finally, it gives a much needed shot of adrenaline to an otherwise limp Phase Four lineup. With no sign of powerhouse X-Men anywhere and no runway to build up to the excellent villains inherited through them and the Fantastic Four, a large supply of memberberries is a solid choice to provide rocket fuel to an otherwise lackluster lineup of new IP. As a reader found this comment unclear, let me clarify: I'm not suggesting there won't be elements from the Fox IP present (we know there will be), but I'm talking about the difference between hints/cameos vs a focus on that new IP. The average viewer (TV or film) is going to be excited about a Wolverine project--you can't assume the same about Ironheart or She-Hulk etc. I realize a lot of superfans are excited by the IP on the docket, but you can easily demonstrate how little impact it has:
Keep in mind there's nothing going on with the X-Men in MCU terms, so their line of interest just reflects the norm. The only IP that peaks above the X-Men is Black Widow and given that the character has been in the MCU for ten years and is buoyed by the running of two marketing campaigns, that doesn't say much. I know there's a slice of the fanbase (including all the scoopers) that believes the MCU can do no wrong--they can make anything work ("Look at Guardians!" is one of the refrains)--that's not really an argument (how does one explain Ant-Man with that logic?). I believe this push to build hype through older IP is partially a way to balance out the limp popularity of some of the characters. I should also point out that Kamala Khan does register higher than Ms. Marvel (due to her leading role in the failed Avengers game), but that blip of interest has sagged down towards the oblivion of Shang-Chi already.
One other conclusion (and this isn't just my idea) is that this approach is why Marvel reached into the archives to find Sam Raimi to direct Doctor Strange 2. I think the only reason they approached him was for his ability to bring back the old actors from the original Spider-Man films. This approach wasn't needed at Fox, where beyond the impossibility of approaching Bryan Singer for his MeToo issues, both Kevin Feige and Ryan Reynolds have a good relationship with Hugh Jackman and the ending of Logan meant if Patrick Stewart said 'no' there was already an in-canon reason to exclude him (in all other cases there's no reason to expect resistance from other Fox, Sony, Netflix, or ABC stars).
I'm not going to break these down scene-by-scene--this article is long enough--just briefly give my impressions. I was underwhelmed by the WandaVision trailer (the worst yet in my opinion--the funny, out of context, isn't there for me). Loki looked excellent (the effects might need some tweaking, but on the whole, performed its function of creating excitement). Falcon and the Winter Soldier looked good (although it really does seem like a Falcon vehicle with Bucky along as a sidekick--that's not inherently bad, but the title suggests joint leads). The Ms. Marvel video isn't really a teaser, it's simply promotional material.
Variety reported on some Hawkeye casting (the roles themselves weren't listed as confirmed at the time, but since have been):
- Fra Fee - Clown [Speculation about the character came via a casting call in July (with Daniel farming it off to The Illuminerdi)]
- Tony Dalton - Swordsman/Jack Duqesne [The only scooper mentioning the character was Sutton back in February, who had him on an R&D list for Thunderbolts, but this was the Andreas Von Strucker iteration]
- Alaqua Cox - Echo [A casting notice for the character was circulated in the fandom in June, although it being for Hawkeye wasn't confirmed until October]
Vera Farmiga was also cast as Kate's mother, but this feels like a smaller role. Just prior to the report Daniel said Florence Pugh (Yelena) will appear here and in Falcon and the Winter Soldier--the Variety report confirms the former. I think this news dynamites old theories about Natasha coming back as Black Widow (these were from Sutton), barring some other iteration via the Multiverse. I have a thought on Pugh below.
Sheikh Abdullah - Laith Nakli
Muneeba Khan - Zenobia Shroff
Nakia Bahadir - Yasmeen Fletcher
In the wake of this news circulating there was an uproar from fans of the IP because the actors are not representative. Unlike with Shang-Chi (with a firm ethnic Chinese casting arc--I'm unsure if they applied John M. Chu's ridiculous idea of actors looking Asian enough)--Ms. Marvel has gone for a loose, American sense of who the various ethnicities are. Will this impact the show? I doubt it, since the groups that are agitated are economically marginal, but it does echo the very loud trend of fans who want adaptations to actually look and feel like the source material. If it illustrates anything, it's that the diversity push from Marvel isn't about actual representation, but marketing and a very specific kind of virtue signaling. If that doesn't make you feel uncomfortable, it should.
As expected, Ms. Marvel will have a supporting role in Captain Marvel 2 (I can't imagine a scenario where that wouldn't be the case--there is no Kamala Khan without Captain Marvel). Monica Rambeau will also appear, which, again, where else was that character going to go? That aside, with the full cast revealed, this show is almost certainly a pass for me--YA material doesn't interest me and this appears to be just another drop in that overflowing bucket.
The smug self-satisfaction scoopers expressed over the confirmation of Steinfeld as Kate Bishop is as obnoxious as imagined. Never have people so incapable of self-reflection or criticism celebrated something that's been largely confirmed for 15 months--and it's not even their scoop--Variety broke the story. This attitude can make these people hard to stomach (there was some catharsis about Murphy in this respect recently--fans respecting his reporting, but hating his attitude). If you're wondering who opposed the casting news it's just two people you've never heard of: Jack McBryan (The Direct) and Derek Cornell (The DisInsider), neither of whom are scoopers. On the broader question of whether she's a good choice for the role: I have no idea. What she does is look a bit like the comicbook character (suggesting a larger role for her is intended, because with leads the MCU tends to stick closer to the comics--perhaps explaining the Cassie Lang news below--the exceptions coming only in the form of award-winning actors like Oscar Isaac as Moon Knight).
Awhile ago Variety (Adam B. Vary/Kroll) reported Rachel McAdams was not coming back to Doctor Strange 2, but now Deadline (Kroll) confirms that she is, indeed, coming back. This makes a lot of sense, because simply pushing Christine Palmer off-stage would come across as extremely odd. The timing of her not coming back was before Raimi was officially signed, so it's unclear if she was not returning for Derrickson or if the plan for her changed subsequently.
I don't think Letitia Wright's anti-vaccination comments will impact her role in Black Panther 2--Gwyneth Paltrow is basically a lunatic and never had any issues at Marvel, so Wright should be fine. The only tangible effect this has is the fan community taking a welcome break from their endless Shuri-as-Black Panther posts (Daniel said in light of this that M'Baku, who would be my pick, is now being considered).
One of the expected confirmations we got is that T'Challa will not be re-cast. The plot of the sequel, apparently, is exploring the world of Wakanda, which is not promising--most of Black Panther was set in the world of Wakanda and reducing scope is not usually a positive. Sutton seems to imply there will be no new Black Panther, which would be an interesting solution to the problem of Boseman's death.
An official announcement will be released from Disney and Sony soon, possibly as early as this month [about the signing of Garfield and Maguire for Spider-Man 3] ... Insiders inform me that Garfield and Maguire could appear again beyond this movie, expected to be the longest of the Spider-Man films. Maguire’s final bow as Spider-Man is still planned; as I reported before they wanted an Endgame-esque finale for him.
I'd thought Sutton was backtracking on when the pair would appear, as Lauder's previous article on the subject suggested this was being pushed to Spider-Man 4, but clearly not. As it turns out, Sutton is right about this and deserves a lot of credit for it. I've mentioned before that I think he has a good source (or sources) at Sony. After this was posted THR (Borys Kit/Aaron Crouch) reported that Alfred Molina is returning as Doctor Octopus, which confirms K. C. Walsh's drunken AMA and is something I hadn't seen elsewhere (I assume Walsh's source is Daniel). This could be why Daniel is saying the film will be bigger than Endgame/Infinity War (an absurd idea, but would guarantee a high box office). Keep in mind, Walsh claims the roles are cameos and that would fit my theory (above) about what Feige is doing here--I believe this would apply to most if not all the extraneous-MCU characters appearing. Daniel says the characters won't be the same versions of themselves from the original films, which is strange if true.
Collider, after the Variety story broke, said Andrew Garfield and Dunst had signed on for the film (Daniel repeated this without crediting them). After this Daniel suggested that Dane DeHaan (Green Goblin) and Willem Defoe (Green Goblin) were also approached and we know negotiations with Emma Stone and Tobey Maguire continue (Devin Colson claims the latter has signed). Later Daniel reiterated part of that idea via his proxy at TI (Timberlake), but paired Thomas Haden Church (Sandman) with Defoe instead (on his own Daniel says both are officially signed).
Sutton claims a new deal between Sony and Disney that will keep Holland for another three films was on the verge of being signed. This idea from Sutton is nothing new, as over a year ago he was claiming it was on its way and not long after referenced the idea of the new trilogy taking place while he's in college--an idea first proposed by LotLB's original source TBK in August of 2019.
Sutton also has claims about the plot:
Spider-Man 3 is going to be a sprawling, ambitious adventure, weaving together science and the supernatural. Apparently, it will end on a cliffhanger as well, concluding in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. ... At the heart of it all will be Holland and Zendaya. The movie will revolve around their relationship, and it's going to be tested here as she realizes how dangerous it is for her boyfriend to be Spider-Man, especially with the world knowing his true identity. The bad guys aren't coming after Parker; they're after her, his most obvious weakness. ... events in WandaVision are what leads the other Sony universe characters to materialize on this Earth. It'll be the fault of the Scarlet Witch. Spider-Man 3 is basically the middle piece of what really is a three-part tale, ending in the Doctor Strange sequel with Mephisto, who will show up here, too, as revealed to me. ... Doctor Strange is going to remove people's memories of Parker being Spider-Man, including [Michelle]'s, with one of his powerful spells. They added there will be consequences to that which I do not know. ... Maguire and Garfield don't appear until the second half of the film, setting up an extraordinary sequence with the trio battling their respective villains. There will be time travel involved as well swinging from one universe to another.
This seems plausible, although that doesn't make it true. I've mentioned before that I'm indifferent to Zendaya's Michelle, although the first two films did a decent job of making her work (she still has no independent existence within the story--she's just a love interest--which makes her actual value to the franchise negligible). Daniel, incidentally, says Ned Leeds will be the Hobgoblin in this film--the only prior related rumours have come from Sutton, who in May said a non-Leeds Hobgoblin was planned for Spider-Man 4, but in October that Leeds will have the part in Spider-Man 3--so as he's done before, Daniel is copying a Sutton scoop.
As I mentioned at the top of this article, the roosters are coming home to roast as Charlie Cox's Daredevil has been confirmed for Spider-Man 3. One of the hilarious results is that everyone is taking credit for the scoop except for the one guy who actually made it, Jeremy Conrad (of all people) back in July of 2019. I don't know where Conrad got his info from and he sounded uncertain about it at points, but he was the first person to put the character in this film, so while Daniel is congratulating Murphy and Sutton is congratulating himself, Conrad gets the prize (despite, oddly, not bothering to claim it on his own site, which once again seems moribund after a redesign).
When this news made the rounds Daniel said Marvel was also interested in bringing Krysten Ritter back as Jessica Jones (given her fairly blank slate of acting gigs, that doesn't seem very hard; Daniel has said this before). Sutton says there are plans for Daredevil in Moon Knight (probably its second season).
We've had Tim Roth's Abomination confirmed to return in She-Hulk and Caleb Williams says The Leader will return as well--the latter is a safe guess, as we've known since 2018 from insider Roger Wardell that they were returning.
We also learned the show will be a comedy made up of half-hour episodes. I find this prospect disappointing, as I think there's limited runway with legal comedies and having that tone connect to the broader MCU. This is another show where my level of investment has declined the more we've heard and its currently sitting in the same 'I'll skip it' with Ms. Marvel. Guest stars won't be enough--this show will need a preview for a reassessment.
We finally know what Owen Wilson's role in the show is: Mr. Mobius. This is information no one had and not something anyone speculated either (the only time the character came up was as speculation for Richard E. Grant's character in September).
The most interesting Ant-Man 3 news was the surprise re-casting of Cassie Lang. I have no idea why Marvel wanted to move on from 19-year old Emma Fuhrmann and sign soon-to-be 24-year old Kathryn Newton. The latter looks more like the comicbook version, but I don't think Marvel would care about that. Fuhrmann expressed an interest in returning to the MCU and I see no reason why not, but I'd love to know the why behind this decision. Along with this news there was confirmation that Kang will be the villain--someone I think will have to be built-up for fans to care (currently I don't care). This film is going to be a tough nut to crack--the MCU brand hasn't been enough to draw fans into Peyton Reed's very safe, small scale approach.
We finally know what the War Machine show will be, which...isn't a War Machine show, but an adaptation of Armor Wars. The basic idea of a show for Cheadle has been floating around the rumour mill for awhile (originating on 4chan in early 2019), but no one had discussed it since this April (Sutton). An ensemble approach is the correct choice here, as neither the character nor the elderly Cheadle is enough of a draw (even on TV). Daniel says Ironheart and Justin Hammer will appear in the show and both make sense--I've mentioned before that I think it's far better to have the former inherit from War Machine than Iron Man (a decision likely forced by RDJ's disinterest in playing a disembodied voice for Ironheart--a reluctance Cheadle likely doesn't share). If this is done right, it's the only new announcement I'm excited for.
We also had confirmed (in the same 'kind-of' light as above) a Groot show. Rumours of a Rocket & Groot show go back to Murphy in late 2018 (link above), but nothing had been said since this February (Sutton) and clearly something has changed for Rocket to be removed from it. The popularity of Baby Yoda from The Mandalorian likely played a role in pushing this forward. Without more details, this doesn't interest me at all.
Walsh says an early draft of Falcon and the Winter Soldier had Sharon Carter appearing as Captain Britain (as an homage to her mother). This idea is so colossally dumb I hope whoever had it is no longer at Marvel, but it does fit with other tone deaf decisions we've seen (eg the casting of Gilgamesh). This means that whenever that draft was written, there were no plans to keep Psylocke's usual origin or do anything with her brother Brian (the former might be due to Fox complications if it was written pre-sale, as it almost certainly was). Clearly there are people at Marvel who like the IP, but it has little concrete resonance with either Feige, the people around him, or both. It's a worrying idea if you have any fondness for the characters.
Murphy believes a Nomad project is coming because Marvel trademarked it and the associated content. As he points out, this would be a logical spinoff for John Walker or Bucky from Falcon and the Winter Soldier, as well as a home for grounded secondary characters. The latter would be more marketable, although the former would be cheaper. I'd lean heavily into the idea that it's for Bucky.
Sutton reiterated his old rumour about Sif getting a Disney+ show (in December of 2019 as an ensemble, although I only heard it this summer because his original post was on the then not-public Geekosity site). In his scoop it was Journey into Mystery, but he's not the first scooper to make the suggestion of a Sif show as I went over recently--Discussing Film put out the idea almost a year earlier (around the time 4chan had a plot description for it). As I said then, it's hard to imagine the thinly drawn character being able to carry a show, so Sutton's idea makes more sense. This would be a place to dump the unremarkable Valkyrie (although I'd rather just delete her entirely) and other Thor-related IP not ready for prime time.
Sutton says there are plans in Doctor Strange 2 to include cameos by some of the original X-Men from Fox's first trilogy. He says this is all very early with no decisions on who to approach. This is incredibly nebulous, but does fit into my idea above and what I've said before (Disney would like the old Fox IP to have some sort of relation to the MCU to have economic relevance going forward).
Incidentally, the Amber Heard rumour I mentioned previously (from Daniel) was specifically her looking to play Sue Storm (this was in the same post, but because of his disorganized, scattershot pile of random rumours I didn't notice it at the time--the giant pile looks like a collection of 4chan/Reddit speculation to me, but we shall see).
Within the same disorganized post Daniel said Jared Leto has had talks to appear as Morbius in Spider-Man 3. I don't follow Sony Marvel rumours comprehensively, so if someone notable has brought this up before, I'm unaware of it (4chan believes he'll appear in Blade, but otherwise I have nothing on-hand).
I wanted to offer an opinion and we'll see in a few years how right or wrong I am: I don't see Florence Pugh as leading lady material. Actors who can carry films are few and far between and we're unfortunately left with nebulous phrases like an "'it' factor" to describe them. To give you an example of someone who I think could be one, it's Anna Taylor Joy, but I don't see that potential in Pugh. You can make an argument that, at this stage in her career, Pugh is comparable to Brie Larson, but Larson was more established and a bigger 'grab' for Marvel when she was signed (we also have to take the box office for Captain Marvel with a grain of salt for now because of when it was released and the marketing's heavy integration of the film with the conclusion of Infinity War). This kind of character always seemed like a better fit on TV than on film regardless, but let's hope Pugh proves me wrong.
Midnight's Edge says the main reason WB moved its entire 2021 theatrical catalogue onto HBO Max was to help the struggling streaming service (whose numbers are roughly equal to CBS' anemic All-Access). This idea seems echoed by the shock from WB execs when AT&T made the decision. I have to add that ME was also claiming this was the tip of the iceberg for the apocalypse of the theater industry, but instead it's simply left WB hanging by itself as a pariah (I went over why I thought their theory was wrong last time).
This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)
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