Marvel News & Notes

Murphy dropped Falcon and the Winter Soldier set videos recorded months ago, covering events we've seen previously via photos. The new thing from this is Murphy's surmise that Erin Kellyman is playing the MCU's version of Songbird (he believes the footage shows the actress and, while its tenuous, the hairstyle does fit photos of here--there is, however, no evidence from the video that indicate's she's Songbird). What's interesting about this is Murphy originally thought a different (as yet unknown) actress was playing Songbird (back in November)--via set photos in which the actress shown is definitively not Kellyman. If being a redhead matters (as Kellyman is), then she's more likely one of Gladiatrix, Cowgirl, or Battleaxe (ginger members of the Grapplers).

There was a lot of speculation about when Falcon and the Winter Soldier would complete filming due to the pandemic interruption. THR reports just nine days of shooting remain in the Czech Republic (which will occur this fall). After this dropped, THR also said sources claimed the show would also be filming in Georgia in August, with Loki also resuming then. Will Falcon film in both locations? It's not spelled out by THR, but that's the simplest explanation.

Deadline reports that Shang-Chi will resume production in Australia before the month is up. This is yet another indication that film and television productions will get special treatment in order to get back up and running (this also applies to Amazon's Lord of the Rings series among others).

Murphy has given up on his Dario Agger (ie Minotaur) idea for Christian Bale's role in Thor 4 because of this description of the character: "Alien and other worldly."

Sutton says Marvel wants Charlie Cox's Daredevil to appear in the second season of Moon Knight.  It's certainly not too early for the MCU to be planning for a second season (if there is one, you'd imagine production occurring in late 2021), but as I've gone over before, we lack any evidence that Feige wants to use elements from the Loeb-verse (thus far he has deliberately ignored them [let me quickly insert that Agent Carter is an exception because Feige had a direct hand in it]). Because of that, I remain dubious of this and all other Netflix/ABC IP speculation.

Sutton claims that Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk are part of what leads into an A-Force film. The two titular characters and Monica Rambeau (debuting in WandaVision) will be part of the team, with Dazzler being discussed as another member. While speculation about A-Force has been rife ever since the contrived scene in Endgame, the only serious rumour about a film comes from LotLB (via their original source) last June. I've always found the idea a little silly (the male heroes are on vacation?), however, a roster like this (crammed with B-grade heroes who've struggled to maintain their own comics) makes sense, but I wouldn't see it as a movie, but a TV-show (that's not what Sutton is proposing, just my own surmise). The idea of this kind of lead-up makes sense, but requires a throughline from Ms. Marvel into She-Hulk and I have no idea what that would be (none of the scoopers have speculated on the later's plot yet--most of the speculation about Ms. Marvel is it serving as a backdoor reboot of the Inhumans). In regards to Dazzler, Feige mercifully cancelled the Hulu animated show (Tigra & Dazzler) in January, which sounded like a train wreck. I've always liked Dazzler and this is one way to make use of her (whether it's the best approach or not requires more information).

Sutton says Vin Diesel still wants to play Black Bolt and, assuming Marvel and he agree on a contract, will be part of an upcoming Inhumans film. The first (and last) time Sutton brought up the Inhumans was back in February, saying there are plans for them to interact with the Fantastic Four in the later's sequel film. Sutton isn't the only one speculating about the Inhumans however, as others have claimed that some of the royal family will appear in Ms. Marvel (same link and as I mentioned above).

Sutton claims Marvel wants to either introduce or reference the Shi’ar Empire in the upcoming Disney+ SWORD TV-series before they appear at some point in an X-Men film. Deathbird, Lilandra’s evil sister, is being developed as a villain for Captain Marvel 3. The former echoes what Sutton said in May. He also had, in November, Cerise (who is Shi'ar) on an Excalibur reserve list (at that time for a film trilogy, but more recently Sutton says it's meant for Disney+, possibly being helmed by Joss Whedon--back in September Sutton speculated that Whedon would direct an MCU film or show in the future). I wonder if Ray Fisher's recent statements about Whedon's behaviour while filming Justice League have impacted those odds.

Sutton says a show based on the group STAKE is being considered for Hulu (it has a supernatural angle, but otherwise is like SHIELD or SWORD). This sounds like a marginal enough IP to not make it to Disney+, but I'm not sure how much (if any) Marvel content is really going to Hulu (long term I don't think Disney can afford multiple streaming services).

Sutton claims a TV-movie on Disney+ for Magik is being considered. This is the first time I've seen her in the rumour-mill (outside of a broader New Mutants rumour from LotLB back in August, where the team would get a Disney+ show). I like the character, who has a lot of potential, but I don't know how quickly Marvel will pull the trigger when Fox's film still hasn't come out.

More from Sutton (via Geekosity, my paraphrase):

Marvel Studios intends to bring back Jon Bernthal as the Punisher; however, it doesn't mean the new series will follow the continuity of the Netflix program especially when the multiverse can now explain it away (or they can simply not refer to it). Secondly, the show could be called Punisher War Journal, just as the '80s comic book. Marvel Studios would like other adult-oriented heroes to guest including Daredevil (as with Bernthal, they'd love for Charlie Cox to reprise the role) and Samuel L. Jackson in his foul-mouthed Fury.

The problems I mentioned with the Netflix material above applies here. I love Bernthal in the role (despite the painful second season of Punisher), but why would Disney want to help their streaming rival? If (and its a big if) Marvel wanted to bring back the Punisher, surely a younger actor makes more sense than the very busy and soon to be 44-year old Bernthal.

From a Sutton Q&A (largely reiterating old points; my comments in pink):

• Kitty Pryde will appear as a member of SWORD as well as being a member of Excalibur [The first idea was dropped in May, where Sutton [Joshua Munn] said she'd appear in Guardians 3, something I struggle to buy if James Gunn is telling the truth that the script hasn't really changed since before he was fired (ergo, before Marvel could use the Fox characters); the second notion goes back much further, originating as an LotLB scoop in August; my only issue with the idea is it suggests Kitty won't have her iconic start with the X-Men, which would be a shame as Fox never attempted it (we'd also lose her father-daughter dynamic with Wolverine)]
• Quasar is coming [Long in the rumour mill, typically associated with Guardians 3; Sutton brought the character up in May as part of an Annihilation-event as an ally of Nova (the idea of such an event goes back to Daniel in October--same link]
• Repeated that the Namor rights are back with Marvel and that a solo film is in development (Tim referenced Joe Quesada's comments from 2016, although they were debunked by Feige in 2018); Tim also echoed the uncertainty about Dwayne Johnson playing the role from the last time this came up [I've gone through the issues regarding Namor's rights before (including Quesada's comments--he's actually said the rights were back twice, the first time in 2012), but as a public service, here's the link again. I discussed this with Sutton briefly before posting this and he hadn't heard about the mutant-issue regarding Namor's rights before (ie, that Fox had a stake because of that); he's also unsure why Feige has kept the return of the rights secret, postulating the reason for doing so is to save it for a big announcement (I don't find that persuasive, but it is possible). As for Dwayne Johnson, I don't see the fit given his commitment to DC and his age (48)--he's also incredibly expensive and if Marvel is comfortable rolling the dice on Simu Liu, it suggests they don't feel pressure to put a well-known actor in leading roles]

Pierre Chanliau, formerly (currently?) of MCU Exchange, [former] Reddit Mod, and best known for a (now outdated) assessment chart of MCU scoopers, apparently also writes for The Direct (not a scoop site, so I pay no attention to it). He reports on a GamesRadar discussion with the former director of Sony's Silver & Black and I'm interested in a quote from her (recall that a vague comment from her was behind speculation about a Disney+ show with the same characters back in May):

"My honest answer is I don't know [what's happening with Silver & Black.] ... There's a question of, 'Can you really have these [Sony Marvel] films with Spider-Man not in them? Should he at least have some sort of part in them?' That's always the question. I've taken two years off of that for [The Old Guard (2020)] so once this gets out into the world, I hope it's a success, and then I'll certainly go back and start talking with them again."

This sentiment is simply common sense, but with Tom Rothman in charge of Sony (who has to work with Amy Pascal and Avi Arad), common sense is in short supply. Gina Prince-Bythewood doesn't know the inner workings of Rothman's mind when it comes to the Spider-Man IP, so her comment reflects the concern that exists at Sony generally and means (as I've stressed before) we have to take the various announced projects with grains of salt--until cameras start to roll, they are all hypothetical.

Speaking of Sony, 4chan has an opinion on their Marvel films:

SONY is looking to expand the Spidey deal into a two way deal. They want Avengers to cameo in their Sony-Verse movies [This idea was just echoed by Sutton]. Of great interest is Cap (Sam of course), Captain Marvel (Sony currently believes she is still gonna be the next face of the MCU), and Ms. Marvel [Kamala Khan]. [This sounds like an Amy Pascal opinion]
Concept art for [the] Sinister Six shows Spider-Man fighting the villain group at the Statue of Liberty alongside SamCap and Ms. Marvel. Both Cap and Kamala were in their All-New All-Different costumes since Sony has next to no insider knowledge on where the MCU is going. These plans/requests are absolutely one-sided. The only reason they knew more than a vague outline about the Blip and Endgame in general for Morbius (both will apparently be referenced if allowed, aware of what was later agreed on, if anything) was because the information was relevant to Far From Home. At the time of involvement, Sony was unsure how much they could reference the MCU, not even sure if the same Spider-Man suit was allowed to be used across studios (they were clear to originally not explicitly call the MCU and SUMC “franchises”) because the Homecoming/Far From Home suits are MCU iconography.
One proposal for the Venom franchise that never got beyond an internal pitch was having the Guardians in a cold open for one of the movies. Not even a plan or outline, just an expression of having them somehow involved. I can only assume the same thing happened when Blade was announced.
I have no spoilers or leaks that matter, it doesn’t matter if they are believed or not, because none of these proposals will come to fruition. I’m not sure if the Snap or “Blip” will even get a direct reference, but they did seem to believe they could [at] bare minimum call it “what happened five years ago.”
Also, I am unsure if Kevin [Feige] had any real involvement with the SUMC as rumored, but if he did, it’s likely the same type of “here are details to not contradict the MCU“ as early Agents of SHIELD or Netfix [had to follow]

If the above is true (and it certainly fits the kind of incompetent confusion of Rothman's career in dealing with comicbook IP), it's an illustration of how clueless Sony is about what it's doing. I've long believed that it will take just one flop (Morbius, Venom 2, or whatever) for Sony to decide it's not worth all the trouble and sell the IP back to Marvel (there's no other place to sell it too).

One of the things I've been wondering about for awhile is the fate of New Gods under Ava DuVernay. WB signed her just before A Wrinkle in Time flopped (Feige having passed on her beforehand). With The Eternals (essentially the same concept) hitting theaters long before New Gods appears, any novelty it could have had is lost. DuVernay may be a talented director--I have no idea--but when given a simple adaptation she failed (unable or unwilling to meet the expectations of the audience). The fit isn't there and my guess is WB doesn't want her to make New Gods, but there's no way of letting her go without criticism. What evidence do I have for this surmise? New Gods hasn't really progressed since DuVernay was announced in March, 2018 (no actors are signed, the script isn't finished, etc); DuVernay keeps taking on other projects (she just signed with Netflix to do a Colin Kaepernick bio, which is the third project she's taken that directly interferes with New Gods). I think WB is hoping she'll ask to leave the project ('creative differences'). This is all speculation, but she always seemed an extremely odd choice to direct a blockbuster.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Marvel News & Notes

Murphy says he's found evidence that Shang-Chi will have a flashback to the Song and Seljuk Dynasty's (960-1279 and 1037-1153; for those unfamiliar they reflect the geographical areas of China and Persia/Iran, respectively), but doesn't state what that evidence is. He claims this will connect the Mandarin to Genghis Khan and believes it is the reason for the casting call GWW's broke in August about a 'ruler of an ancient, distant kingdom' (at the time GWW, Murphy, and Conrad thought it was for Namor--Namor's eminent return is something Conrad was pushing in January, claiming the rights were back, a theory whose issues I go through via the link and was indirectly debunked by Mark Ruffalo not long after). If both regions are meant to be connected to Khan, then it's not the Seljuk Dynasty, but the Khwarazmian Dynasty (1077-1221) that's relevant. It's also a little puzzling that the descriptor is 'a distant kingdom,' given that Mongolia is literally right next to China. That aside, Murphy's idea is plausible (Marvel isn't going to get bogged down in historical pedantry, eg they have a South Korean playing Gilgamesh, perhaps the most iconic Middle Eastern character of history/folklore in that region), and while I think its odd connecting Mandarin to the Mongolian conqueror (I can't imagine the Chinese view him very positively), that does match comicbook lore.

Lizzie Hill was combing through resumes (I don't know where--IMDB Pro?) and a stunt person included a credit that reads WandaVision (Ep.109). She jumps to the conclusion that the show will have more than the expected six episodes and that's certainly plausible. I'm less concerned with the episode count than the length of the episodes--will we get truncated, network-TV style stories? Or will it be better developed, HBO-style long form storytelling? I have no idea, but if this is correct I feel it's likely the former (which is disappointing).

The casting notice above has Murphy, Daniel, Tim (LotLB), and others speculating that Echo is coming to a Disney+ show shooting this fall (Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye, She-Hulk, or Moon Knight). It's via casting director Sarah Finn for a "deaf female, Native American, First Nations, Indigenous or Latinx, 18 or older." The casting sheet above is courtesy of Tim, who is the only one who showed it. Very few Marvel characters match this description (assuming, of course, it's not an original role). The only issue I have with it is that Echo seems attached to the Daredevil IP, which would legally make her ineligible for casting until November. Murphy points out the casting call could be for The Mandalorian (since Finn is casting for it as well) and that seems more likely to me.

LotLB with a Sutton-derived list for Disney+ (Tim clarified that these lists are actually R&D (research and development), not reserve lists, but they used the former term to protect their sources--apparently that's no longer a concern). This clarification reminded me of a theory I had awhile ago that Deadline's mistaken story about Deathlok was due to misinterpreting such a list--the writer learned Deathlok #1 was being researched and assumed it was about the titular character rather than the Grapplers (who seem to be coming to Falcon and the Winter Soldier). The list:

• Nicholas Trask (not the X-Men Trask) - His name hasn't come up before
• Lucia Von Bardas (Latverian) - Conrad repeated this without attribution--we've gone over his habit of doing so many times before
• Figment - Also new in rumours
• Hijinx (part of the Canadian Ninja Syndicate) - New
• Kamran - He was included in a casting sheet for Ms. Marvel reported on in February; Daniel repeated this idea without attribution a few days after Sutton (I'm uncertain why he's piggybacking on Sutton when he had TI to use months ago)
• Starjammers - In March Reddit said a show or film was in development
• Frenzy (a mutant villain) - New
• Titania - Common speculation since She-Hulk was announced, but not specifically brought up until March when Murphy speculated the Grapplers would appear in Falcon and the Winter Soldier

About a week ago I dropped a Wolverine scoop sent to me by Mikey Sutton. I won't repeat the information here, but for those who missed it they can check it out via the link. Sutton says he'll send me an Excalibur scoop sometime soon (the missing element Jarbo was supposed to add to the May scoop jam).

Another MCU R&D list from LotLB via Sutton, which features a lot of characters who have come up before:

• The Sons of the Serpent - New
• Hulkling - Speculated ever since the Cassie Lang scoop back in 2018, but a casting sheet for him has been floating around since January (the text of the sheet here)
• Iron Lad - See above, but no reputable scooper has specifically mentioned him previously (WGTC did last January, but otherwise it's radio silence--outside of Kang speculation, that is); my issue with him is the same with any successor character: how many can you have before it becomes repetitive or redundant? There's no Iron Man now, so it's fine, but once you add Ironheart you could hit some problems
• Prodigy - New
• America Chavez - Common in the rumour mill, with GWW saying a show was coming back in August and then TI believing a casting call was for her in January
• Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr) - New
• Wiccan and Speed (Tommy Shepherd) - Two characters seemingly confirmed by the WandaVision trailer, but have been in the rumour mill forever (eg)

LotLB also dropped two Sutton Q&A videos with these tidbits (to make my comments standout I've put them in red):

• Reiterated what they said (via TBK) about Dwayne Johnson/Namor over a year ago [For issues with Namor see above]
• Firestar is coming [I believe the only time she was brought up before was back in August by LotLB in a Spider-Man context--when Peter Parker is in college; Daniel echoed this new scoop a day later without attribution (Conrad promptly repeated him)]
• Moon Knight will be heavily steeped in Egyptian mythology [Sutton said this in September, but at that time didn't think Marvel would use his multiple personalities; Sutton had Pedro Pascal in the role, which I found exceedingly odd given his age and that he's not Jewish (he's also shooting Tropico when Moon Knight's production is thought to begin)]
• Ghost Rider will probably be Johnny Blaze, but it's unclear if he'll be in film or on Disney+ [The rumours about Ghost Rider have been dizzying in their variety and complexity--for Sutton it went from Alejandra Jones in September, to Blaze in January, to Jones appearing in Blade in February, to her being trained by Blaze shortly afterwards (not sure if that's supposed to be in Blade or not; it's worth pointing out that these ideas have never been mutually exclusive--as in, they don't inherently contradict one another)]
• Reiterated that Devil Dinosaur will appear when the X-Men go to the Savage Land [Something he broke in May]
• Gambit will have a Disney+ series before joining the X-Men (barring a change) [He first said this back in August and put out a reserve list in February--in the first instance it was the Fox project brought into the MCU, which was not specified subsequently and I think there's no chance that Channing Tatum's project is something Feige is interested in]
• Bernthal's Punisher won't (physically) appear until Midnight Sons [Sutton has consistently said the Netflix actors would carry over to the MCU--I'm not persuaded by his argument (eg), but this long gap for Bernthal would skip past his (current) busy schedule]
• Marvel has big plans for Black Knight (not specifically The Eternals) [Back in August LotLB had Black Knight as part of Excalibur and this was repeated by Sutton in November (which weirdly echoes an old Ain't it Cool rumour from 2018); I have vague recollections of LotLB making the claim about him post-Eternals before, but I can't find it, so take my memory with a grain of salt]

This is a brief aside and I'm not picking on Murphy specifically, just using him to illustrate a point since I see this all the time (and not just in Marvel circumstances). Recently he posted that Marvel has resumed casting for Ms. Marvel and that filming might begin sooner than later. This isn't unexpected, so I didn't report it. Given that, why am I talking about it now?

The casting of Kamala Khan is certainly one that is of great interest to many (my Twitter DMs are proof as they are filled with questions about when and who and if)

Murphy's DM volume is proof of absolutely nothing--it's not even an accurate assessment of the interest of his Twitter followers (at best it's an indicative sample of those who send him DMs). His conclusion represents two things:
1) Anecdotal evidence (evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony)
2) Confirmation bias (the tendency to search for, interpret, favour, and recall information that confirms or support one's prior personal beliefs or values)
The proper way to assess relative popularity is from large pools of data (in this case things like comic sales, Google Trends, publicly voted popularity lists, etc). When you do that research (as I have done in the past for Ms. Marvel, eg, eg, eg, and eg) you discover that Kamala Khan is a niche character the general public has never heard of (this also applies to Shang-Chi, The Eternals, etc). Marvel is well aware of this void in awareness and I think that's the main reason Kamala is starring in the upcoming Marvel video game. This evidence does not mean her show won't succeed and make her popular, just that Murphy's assumptions have to be ignored. There's nothing wrong with enjoying and promoting something you like that's obscure, but you have to be realistic about it (eg any time I've talked about Alpha Flight, for instance).

I wanted to briefly comment on the news of Michael Keaton returning as Batman for DC. I saw Batman (1989) in theaters when I was fourteen--it was the first competent superhero film I'd seen since Superman 2 (1981) and, while it's campy (as one would expect from Tim Burton), it remains one of the better Batman films to date. Batman Returns (1992) is still, in my opinion, the best Batman film we've ever had--The Dark Knight (2008) comes close, but has plot problems and pacing issues, so slides into second for me (buoyed by Heath Ledger's magnificent performance). That's where I'm coming from--Keaton is my favourite Batman. Given that, in theory I'm happy to see him come back to the role. However, Keaton cannot hold up a film if the writing is bad. Who are the writers of The Flash? Andy Muschietti and Christina Hodson. The latter gave us Birds of Prey (yikes!), showing no instincts for the genre at all. Muschietti's recent efforts were It (which looked fantastic, but whose writing was average), followed by the largely unwatchable sequel. None of this gives me confidence that we'll see Keaton used effectively (although there's no harm in hoping). DC's major Achilles heel for decades has been writing, stretching all the way back to Batman Forever (1995). Marvel mitigates the issue by having no hesitation in bringing in new people if something isn't working. Joss Whedon on The Avengers is the most famous example, but here are all the cases I'm aware of:

• Iron Man (2008) - Two sets of writers (Fergus & Ostby, Marcum & Holloway), with much of the film re-written on-set when filming commenced (not to the point of changing the credits, however)
• Thor (2011) - Four credited writers/writing teams, with Nichole Perlman being an uncredited script doctor on-set
• The Avengers (2012) - Whedon killed the Zach Penn script (who wrote The Incredible Hulk)
• Iron Man 3 (2013) - Two credited writers with Whedon doing uncredited tweaks
• Thor 2 (2014) - Three writers/writing teams were brought in to rescue a Don Payne script (he was also behind the story of the first Thor); Markus & McFeely were the last to try and save it
• Guardians (2014) - Gunn made significant changes to Perlman's original script (although seeing the downgrade of the sequel without her help makes it clear her contributions were important)
• Ant-Man (2015) - Two writing groups still required on-set doctoring from David Callaham
• Spider-Man (2017) - Three different writing teams still required uncredited Eric Pearson contributions
• Thor 3 (2017) - Taika famously talks about how everything was improv'd (ala Iron Man), but given the published script we know that's exaggerated; this is another film Pearson did uncredited re-writes for
• Ant-Man 2 (2018) - Two writing teams still required Adam McKay to try and help spruce things up
• Captain Marvel (2019) - No Marvel film had more hands involved in it, but the dialogue seems largely via the (now departed) directors and Robertson-Dworet
• Black Widow (2020) - Both the original Schaeffer script and emergency Ned Benson re-write were tossed in favour of script doctor Eric Pearson, who has the only writing credit
• Shang-Chi (2021) - It's rumoured that Callaham's script required emergency re-writes, but this remains unconfirmed
• Doctor Strange 2 (2022) - Jade Bartlett's initial script is already gone, with Michael Waldron taking over

This is admittedly a long digression, but I wanted to show that the MCU's approach hasn't changed and that (with very few exceptions) they are less interested in an auteur's vision than they are with what they see as both quality and consistency in their films. DC has leaned so heavily on director visions that the films wind up being all over the place (and, alas, rarely at a high level).

Conrad put out an article where he says there's a dangerous YT faction who are using fake scoops to profit off spec books. He names no one specifically and offers no evidence, but the only channel that fits his premise is LotLB (whom I've discussed ad nauseam). I had a similar concern about them initially, but as time has gone on that quickly faded. Conrad is not someone who should be accusing anyone of malfeasance anyway, given his long track record of stealing other people's scoops (including those from LotLB, ironically enough). I'm less interested in his conspiracy than I am in two other things (one in the article and one I'm reminded of by the article).

• 1) When Conrad talks about how he could indulge in this abuse as well, his only example is The Eternals scoop he had over two years ago--it really has been that long since Conrad scooped something and its little wonder his YT channel is basically dead and, minus the support because of Covid, his Patreon flatlined years ago. He is virtually irrelevant as a scooper and barring another significant scoop, destined to fade into oblivion
• 2) Since we're dealing with baseless theories, let's indulge one I had a long time ago. Who killed LotLB's original channel? Tim's theory at the time was related to the music he had on his channel, which is plausible. Briefly I considered the possibility that Conrad himself was been involved (given his hostility to LotLB), but while false flagging is an option for him, I don't think Conrad has the pull for that and I very quickly came to Tim's conclusion

Conrad's content these days is just repeating what others have reported. I can't remember the last time he claimed to break a story--off the top of my head it's his debunked claim about Namor in January, but there's good reason to believe even that idea was gleaned from someone else (Murphy or Sutton). When I think of Conrad, I think of his insistence that the title of Avengers: Endgame was going to be Annihilation. Having things like that blow up in his face has made him more reluctant to claim insider knowledge (something we know he doesn't have), but without scoops, what is the purpose of his site? He can't switch to opinion, because his opinions are identical to the bigger scoopers (I went over this a long time ago--outside of LotLB, the scoopers all share the same ethos and aesthetic, so if one has an opinion it's shared by all of them). It would be sad if he wasn't such a toxic person online.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Mikey Sutton Exclusive: Wolverine's MCU Origin

A little preamble before we get into the fun stuff: about a month ago I was contacted by Mikey Sutton after he'd become aware of my work. He asked if I'd like to have scoops sent my way and my response is self-evident. I'm impressed that Sutton appreciates my content despite criticism, as it's a rare quality in this arena.

I was sent this scoop on Saturday (June 20th), but at the time I was both busy with work and making my way through streaming The Last of Us 2 (which released on Friday). The latter is complete and things have calmed down in general, so I can put the focus required into reporting on it. Buckle-up, because this is fascinating.

Here is the quote from Sutton:

"They [the X-Men] break [Wolverine] out as Weapon X. He tells them to call him Logan because he is not a weapon for anyone. He participates [as part of the group] but doesn't join the team. He strikes a deal with Professor X--I don't know what the stakes are. At the end [of the film] he calls himself Wolverine and apparently there's a profound reason for that, but I don't know what it is yet."

I'll delve into this fully below, but let's go over prior comments related to this. Sutton's original X-Men scoop came out about a month ago and these are the bullet points from it (including added details from later):

• Early title is The Uncanny X-Men
• The X-Men will be introduced slowly before having their own film
• The team will be Cyclops, Jean Grey, Thunderbird, Nightcrawler, Sunfire, Havok, Wolverine, and Storm (similar, but not identical, to the initial Claremont roster--missing Banshee and Colossus, with Havok added)
• The initial story includes Thunderbird's death ala X-Men #96, as well as the battle with Krakoa (Giant-Sized X-Men #1)
• The Xavier-run school for gifted mutants will have a large roster that will send out different formations to deal with the issues at hand (like the X-Men in Hickman's current run)
• In the beginning Wolverine is still known as Weapon X and is in confinement

Not long after Sutton spoke to me on Saturday, he posted the following on his Geekosity page:

After Weapon X is liberated from Department K* by the X-Men, he participates in one of their missions but doesn't join the team, as I reported in an earlier scoop [May, link above]. Logan is still a wanted man. He is considered [Canadian] government property and therefore the country's own Avengers, named Alpha Flight, are sent to hunt him down [the story of X-Men #120-121]. Vindicator. Northstar. Aurora. Puck. Sasquatch. Shaman. Snowbird. But trying to net Wolverine is one thing, a major problem. Unfortunately, there is an incredible one. Alpha Flight are caught in the crossfire as the Hulk is in Canada as well, in full rage mode.
Marvel Studios doesn't think Alpha Flight have the makings of a cinematic franchise; there are too many toys in the box to play with and only enough time [ie, more prominent IP to develop]. But they would like to see them in the Wolverine movie where he fights the Hulk [ala the former's origin in the comics], which I scooped here almost a year ago now [the September link below]. This isn't about old news. Marvel Studios sees the potential of Alpha Flight for Disney+ after appearing in a Wolverine movie. The Canadian setting will be fresh and less expensive to shoot, not to mention that the cast is diverse from the beginning, [including] even Marvel Comics' first openly gay superhero Northstar. They have the potential to have both the explosive action of the Avengers and the social conscience of the X-Men.

*This was Department H originally (1978), but Rob Liefled/Fabian Nicieza retconned (1991) that Department K were the ones responsible for the Weapon X program

Sutton added that Marvel is particularly interested in Sasquatch as a character (I'll go into the roster below). He's since clarified to me that the X-Men film comes first, then the Wolverine film. This idea (Hulk vs Wolverine, something broached by Anthony Russo years ago and been brought up by Mark Ruffalo repeatedly over the last year), is not new from Sutton, who mentioned it in September (he also included Alpha Flight and, in brief, the plot above). No other scooper--not even WGTC--covered this news at that time. Sutton repeated the Alpha Flight elements and bits of the Wolverine info in May (again, with no resonance in the scooper-sphere). However, as we'll see below, the dam has finally burst and people are paying attention.

Many fans are unfamiliar with Alpha Flight as, outside of their initial run in the 80s, the comic has never found its footing. They are as obscure as The Eternals, although the characters from that IP have (arguably) slightly more cache. The Alpha Flight roster mentioned is an interesting one, as Puck was not originally part of the team (cf X-Men #120). Originally Puck was part of Beta Flight (which, along with Gamma Flight, was a training squad of aspirants for the core team). Puck has remained a fairly popular character (in Alpha Flight-terms), and was only absent from the lineup briefly, so adding him isn't a big deal. I wonder if instead of the original Shaman (Michael Twoyoungmen), we'll get his daughter Talisman (Elizabeth) to help spread out the gender diversity (going from five-two to four-three). The team is very Caucasian, however, and while I don't think that always matters, Marvel may think it does, meaning race-swaps (particularly given how obscure the group is) are on the table (Sasquatch would be the easiest, as there's nothing about being white that's core to the character).

Briefly, here are the core Alpha Flight characters (including creators and first appearance):

• James Hudson (Vindicator/Guardian; Claremont/Byrne, 1978) - The acerbic leader who died early in the original Alpha Flight (retconned later); the most conventional character on the roster, his powers are derived from a suit he constructed
• Heather McNeil (Guardian; Claremont/Byrne, 1980) - James' spouse who would take over his leadership role after his death; a very warm, motherly character for an eclectic team; her powers are also via a suit
• Jean-Paul Beaubier (Northstar; Claremont/Byrne, 1979) - Twin brother of Jeanne-Marie, he's probably best known as the first openly gay character in Marvel (1990); he's a mutant with light-related powers (including flight and speed)
• Jeanne-Marie Beaubeir (Aurora; Claremont/Byrne, 1979) - Twin sister to Jean-Paul with a similar power base; she has dissociative identity disorder, meaning she has multiple personalities
• Michael Twoyoungmen (Shaman; Claremont/Byrne, 1979) - A practitioner of magic which focuses on imploring spirits; a very classic, if stereotypical, shaman character
• Anne McKenzie/Narya (Snowbird; Claremont/Byrne, 1979) - Daughter of the goddess Nelvanna and a human; she's a shapeshifter, can fly, has mystical senses, and other attributes
• Walter Langkowski (Sasquatch; Claremont/Byrne, 1979) - Has the Hulk's origin of being transformed during a gamma experiment; he's also a brilliant doctor; I think Marvel will tweak his origin so the parallel's aren't so exact
• Eugene Judd (Puck; Byrne, 1983) - Originally conceived of by Byrne as someone with Batman-like physical fitness who wanted to be a hero, but Bill Mantlo (who took over Alpha Flight after Byrne) changed that to him having a demon imprisoned inside his body; his powers have a mystical basis and give him increased strength, agility, durability, etc; his personality reminds me of Wolverine
• Marrina Smallwood (Marrina; Byrne, 1983) - not included in Sutton's scoop, but the only absent member of the original team in Alpha Flight #1, so I wanted to mention her; she's an alien-hybrid (Plodex); an amphibian who can shape-change, control water, etc; she's had a romantic relationship with Namor (even marrying him), but was killed off pretty early (1988) before being brought back (she's had by far the fewest appearances in the comics among the group)

This is an eclectic group with strong personalities. There's lot's of potential for drama here, but they've simply never connected with comicbook fans (due to a mix of the writing, how weird the characters are, and the niche they fill of being Canadian heroes). The late Jon Schnepp was one of the few people who got excited about the team. I see a lot of potential, but it requires creative people who are up to the task. The group's powers could also make them expensive, depending on how they are done, which would hurt the odds of them hitting Disney+ (I don't want to see CW-effects in a Marvel production).

After the Alpha Flight scoop dropped, Daniel repeated the information (without attribution), which was picked up by others and found its way to Murphy (sourcing it from former GWWer Caleb Williams, who Tweeted it out--certainly via Daniel, as he, like other ex-GWWers, have reported on his Patreon before). Murphy claims he had heard pre-Disney+ (pre-September, 2017, when he was still at MCU Exchange), that Feige was interested in Alpha Flight. Given Murphy's various comments over the years this information, assuming it has solid foundations, came from an agent, since as far as I can recall he's never mentioned having an actual MCU inside source (it's my belief his Endgame/Infinity War scoop came that way as well).

For a long time my theory (eg) was if we ever saw Alpha Flight, it would be in a Captain Marvel context, as after she was re-branded by Kelly Sue DeConnick (2012), they've had an association with her through SWORD. This isn't a particularly interesting way to use them, but Marvel could have made it work. I prefer Sutton's vision as presented here.

Coming full circle, let's go back to the Wolverine scoop and the broader idea of the early X-Men and what to expect. It goes without saying that I like these ideas a great deal--the Len Wein/Chris Claremont days of the X-Men are the most iconic and worthy of adapting. Given that Hickman has 'fixed' Krakoa in his current run with the comic, its a much more doable story for an X-Men film and adding the Hulk to Wolverine's struggles with Alpha Flight is an inspired idea. While my earlier guess at what version of the X-Men we'll get is different (cf), Sutton's team is very appealing. In addition, I love John Byrne's run on Alpha Flight and hope to see some of it adapted. The idea of having Wolverine appear and then not join the X-Men, dealing with being chased by Alpha Flight on his own afterwards, is excellent (oddly reflecting his desire in X-Men #120-121). Wolverine is bigger than the X-Men (as an IP), giving Marvel the option for him to have his own stories without them. This approach adds weight to his origin and his later choice to join the X-Men--it also fleshes out his background in a way that Fox never attempted. I've never liked how bloated Wolverine's origin has become, specifically the elements added in 2001-02's Origin (Quesada, Jenkins, and James). The original idea for him made much more sense and I hope Marvel sticks with that--the fact that Fox went the other way makes that a strong possibility. All in all, to sum up, the entire idea is very appealing.

My thoughts on specific elements included in the scoops:

• There's a broad assumption across the Marvel theorist/scooper-sphere that the Weapon X program will tie into all the other super soldier programs that began with Captain America--this fits that model. Will the MCU be able to resist adding an American angle to it, or can they keep Department K purely Canadian?
• I'm curious what reasoning will be given for the Wolverine nickname. I can't recall the explanation within the comics and while wolverine populations are highest in Canada, they are not unique to the country, ranging across similar environments around the world (so its presumably a reference to their characteristics or symbolism)
• I'm curious what they'll do with the name Logan, as the James Howlett moniker was added much later (2001-02) and never made much sense to me
• I wonder if Hulk reverting to his bestial nature is a function of whatever Wanda does in her series? It seems a bit redundant, since Banner has just gone through a full character arc where he doesn't have to do that anymore, but the story itself would be a fun one
• The death of Thunderbird would add a lot of pathos to the group, as well as add humility and caution in Xavier. I'm a big fan of Thunderbird--he's an inspired character from the era and represents something almost completely absent from American entertainment (Native Americans)
• I'm unsure what the slow-burn introduction of this iteration of X-Men would be like--it's easy to see Storm introduced in Black Panther 2, but it's less clear where the other characters could debut (one could see Rogue in Captain Marvel 2, but she isn't part of this group)

Let's go into the qualms/concerns I have about the scoop. I mentioned back in May (link above) that I have a hard time believing Marvel's team composition will be six men and two women, particularly from an IP stuffed with iconic female characters (Polaris is available in the era being adapted and there's nothing preventing Kitty Pryde from appearing, even if she's not officially part of the team; gender swapping Sunfire would also be easy, as he's an obscure character and thus unattached to merchandising concerns). The group does hit the diversity quotient, but I think gender split matters as well. In addition, I'd imagine some hesitation in doing the Thunderbird story since they'd be killing off the first Native American character introduced into the MCU. A final note that could support the scoop (something I mentioned awhile ago): the Russos' have made three straight billion dollar films for Marvel (Civil War 1.15, Infinity War 2.04, and Endgame 2.79)--if they want to do something, I think they are can write their own ticket (although their interest seems more about Wolverine than the X-Men, given the public statements that I've seen).

If we get a Disney+ version of Alpha Flight I'd want to see Vindicator's death adapted (Alpha Flight #12) because of its drama and impact (as well as for the battle between Omega Flight and Alpha Flight). Would Marvel provide the budget for that kind of altercation? I have no idea, but there's no harm in hoping. Most of Byrne's other stories were highly personal and small scale, which make them easy to adapt.

As for the X-Men, there's so much to play with in terms of stories from Claremont. Here are a few favourites elements (in no particular order):

• The Phoenix Force (leading eventually to Dark Phoenix)
• The Sentinels
• The Starjammers
• Magneto (and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants)
• The Shi'ar
• The Savage Land
• Days of Future Past (Rachel Summers)
• The Marauders
• The Morlocks
• The Brood

It's a rich history and I have no idea where Marvel would want to take things (they tend to think in terms of trilogies, so presumably that would be the focus). I want to see an interesting version of Magneto that's distinct from the Fox approach; I'd love to see the Savage Land along with the crazy space stuff, but also some of the smaller, more intimate stories. There's a lot to choose from and Hickman has shown the light of where the group can go (bypassing, I hope, the many goofy twists and turns the IP went through in the 90s-00s). There are also things from Claremont that I'd want avoided, especially endless 'fall of the mutants' storylines which cluttered the end of his run.

But I'm slipping off into the wilds of speculation and with the X-Men that could go on and on. Going back to the scoop at hand: I hope it turns out to be true, even if some of the details change (roster tweaking or what have you). I like the idea of Wolverine's origin following its earliest iteration and the approach reflected here is an interesting twist on the past.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Marvel News & Notes

Murphy posted an article that includes the MCU-slate as he understands it. I want to take a look at where he slots the various Disney+ shows whose release dates are currently unknown:
Loki - after Shang-Chi (May/21)
Ms. Marvel - after Spider-Man 3 (November/21)
Hawkeye -  after Spider-Man 3 (November/21) and Ms. Marvel
She-Hulk - after Doctor Strange 2 (March/22)
Moon Knight - after She-Hulk
He then has Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, and Loki season two listed.
He attaches no specific reasoning to the list so my guess is he simply kept the order he had prior to the pandemic delay (assuming that, as with the films, the MCU has simply pushed things forward in similar fashion). I'm unsure if the giant gap between WandaVision and Loki is necessitated by the delayed production or not. We know from the original Falcon and the Winter Soldier production schedule (October-August) that Marvel can produce and release a show in less than a year if they are so-inclined.

Lizzie Hill wrote about an Instagram image from the filming of Falcon and the Winter Soldier that depicts a devil's head symbol on a gang member's jacket, expressing uncertainty over what it might mean. Her boss (colleague?) Murphy responded that he thinks it represents Ogun, a Japanese ninja (an idea that makes a historian's head explode) who debuted in 1984's Kitty Pryde and Wolverine mini-series. The symbol certainly fits this idea and the character would be yet another hint at Wolverine himself (just as using Madripoor itself is). If he appears, does Ogun have a substantial role, or is he just a villain for an episode who adds some colour? I suspect he's just another part of the MCU throwing a ton of D-grade villains at the screen (cf the Shang-Chi tournament).

An unrelated note: my intention to do IP-related theory articles on a weekly basis has failed, but the next one (which is on Falcon and the Winter Soldier) is in progress and, depending how preoccupied I get with The Last of Us 2, I hope to have done sooner than later.

It turns out I missed TI confirming back in January that Hulkling will appear in WandaVision. This came on the heels of Daniel reporting (just beforehand) that he would appear, but he wasn't sure where. According to TI:

Marvel Studios is searching for a teenager or young adult male to play Teddy (age 16 – 23), describing him as a Skrull who requires help from S.W.O.R.D. in order to remain safely on Earth

Could this be why Monica Rambeau is involved in the show? I have no idea. It seems very detached from the focus of WandaVision, but I'm sure the intent is about Wiccan and the Young Avengers more than anything else (in which case, I don't know how large Teddy's role will be).

Sutton has a long term spec list for WandaVision, Doctor Strange 2, and more: Bova Ayrshire; Viv and Vin; Agatha Harkness; Darkhold; Chthon; Ghost Boxes (objects); Amadeus Cho; and Clea

Tim mentioned that some of these characters are already rumoured/confirmed and that's true in some cases. Agatha, beyond being long-rumoured, has been confirmed through set leaks; Clea goes back to Wardell in December, 2018 (subsequently appearing in casting grids, cf--the only question is if Wardell's initial belief that she'd be race-swapped to Asian is still current or not). We had one prior rumour involving Chthon in WandaVision from Reddit in December.

As for the others, beyond vague comments from Feige about successor characters appearing, we've had no serious rumours about Cho before. Bova's appeared in the background of the Expanding the Universe featurette (although no one has proposed her actually appearing before). Other than the fake Wardell, I haven't heard the Darkhold mentioned before either, nor Ghost Boxes or Vision's android children. LotLB's Manimal guesses that both sets of kids will appear (an interesting idea, but one I think would make the show far too busy).

About spec list's specifically: why does Marvel need to reserve anything now that Feige controls all of it? Previously there were two separate entities within Marvel (Marvel Studios under Feige and Marvel Entertainment under Loeb), so it was important to determine who gets what. However, that's no longer the case, so who are these characters being reserved from? The only explanation I can think of is that it's to prevent other creators within the MCU from using said characters in their own IP (so, to follow the logic, Bova can't appear in Guardians 3, etc).

Continuing from Sutton above:

• No Nightmare in Doctor Strange 2 (this was first fully referenced by Murphy back in January, although 4chan, about a week beforehand, implied as much)
• Triumph and Torment will be the storyline for Doctor Strange 3 (a story that features both Strange and Doctor Doom; repeating what Sutton said back in January and September)

The idea of Doom is an interesting one, although given the relative time frame (I'd expect DS3 within a few years of this film), is there enough time to introduce Doom and, if so, would a team-up with Strange make sense so soon afterwards?

Murphy speculates that we'll see a lot of Hawkeye's past in his show (via flashbacks). I hope this isn't true, since at this stage there's no point in developing Clint's backstory further--the show is a passing of the torch, after all, so the focus should be on his relationship with Kate Bishop.

Sutton, in what I don't consider a scoop, has added his voice to what seems like an obvious element of Ms. Marvel: Captain Marvel will appear in her show. It's impossible to imagine Kamala Khan's origin without Carol's involvement (although I did propose a theory awhile ago whereby Monica Rambeau could serve as her inspiration instead). I gave up on that theory because the MCU is clearly working to improve the general reception of Carol Danvers (as evidenced by changing directors) and this is a positive way to do it, so I'm not expecting any changes to the general gist of Kamala's origin.

Sutton says they've talked about Charlie Cox's Daredevil appearing in season two of Moon Knight. I get into his rationale for the inclusion of the Netflix characters below (I still don't believe it), but we know that Marvel plans well ahead for the arcs of their IP.

Conrad says Marvel still has plans for Starfox (who, typically, would be part of The Eternals). Within his post he indicates there were early casting calls that included both he and Karen the archaeologist for the film--the assumption would be this is via Production Weekly, but Conrad (in typical fashion) doesn't make it clear where that info comes from (it matches Murphy's post for THS back in 2018, which is likely Conrad's source). I have no feelings about this idea whatsoever, as none of the characters from the Eternals IP are ones I spent any time with as a comic reader. Could he appear? Sure, but we need more than Conrad's word for it.

In another video Sutton's response to a question about Hugh Jackman as Wolverine implied he would not reprise the character, but could appear in some other capacity (which is plausible, cf discussions with he and Stewart by Feige in the fall). Whether Jackman wants to return in another capacity remains unknown.

Sutton also repeated that the Sentry is coming (at some point in the next five years), which echoes an old reserve list from LotLB in September (it's unclear if that list was from Sutton or the Black Knight).

Sutton's offered some reasoning for the Netflix actors returning (beyond the obvious idea that they are popular) by trying to debunk one of the most common arguments against it (that Feige doesn't play with other people's creations): it wouldn't be the first time Feige has used a character from another creator. He cites Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool, J. K. Simmons J. Jonah Jameson, and hypothetically Patrick Stewart/Hugh Jackman's characters (we don't know how much of those discussions were purely a courtesy on Feige's part). I understand what he's saying, but there's a huge difference between the inclusion of these particular characters vs the Netflix IP. Let me explain:

• 1) Netflix is a (continuing) streaming rival who owns the early seasons, so by keeping the actors as those characters it's benefiting a competitor
• 2) Feige has shown antipathy towards everything Jeph Loeb had his hands in--preventing any serious crossover between the now-defunct Marvel Entertainment and Marvel Studios
• 3) Disney now owns all the Fox IP (so all the characters), giving them a financial incentive to add relevance to an otherwise dead back catalogue (it's also possible we're getting Deadpool in the MCU because of Bob Iger, not Feige)
• 4) Jameson's inclusion is impacted by Sony's impute, who has a say in the IP and we know is eager to connect their current films to their older Spider-Man IP

To sum up: I'm not saying Sutton doesn't have an argument here, just that I don't find it persuasive.

Just a thought: with the MCU's push for greater diversity I was thinking about race swaps in the Fantastic Four. We've already seen this done with the Human Torch in Fan4stic, but the easiest thing to do (that wouldn't impact merchandise) would be to swap The Thing. To do either of the Storm siblings causes all sorts of issues with logic (as seen in Trank's hilariously awful film) and Reed Richards (along with the pair) sells merch. The safe move is Ben Grimm, so if we get a swap, that's my pick for it. While I think by the time Fantastic Four hits theaters Marvel probably could get away with an all-white team (given the diversity elsewhere), I don't think they'll try.

Murphy spends an inordinate amount of time explaining that Sony's Madame Web and Spider-Woman projects are different by indirectly citing Production Weekly's information from February (as dropped by Daniel at that time). The thrust of the post is about a theory I'd paid no attention too regarding the two projects (proposed by the former GWWer's now at TCS), so for me the only interesting element included here (which wasn't in Daniel's post) is that Palak Patel is overseeing Spider-Woman (with Amy Pascal is producing). This is very important, because only projects overseen by Patel have ever made it to screen for Sony (I'd thought Pascal was in charge and, as such, wasn't taking it very seriously). Do I think Pascal can give us a good Jessica Drew film? Absolutely not.

Murphy has started adding writers to his website: his friend Lizzie Hill, his former editor Charles Villanueva, and (wannabe?) politician Dalbin Osorio. It's odd seeing the editor of MCU Exchange posting content here when his own site struggles to produce it (I also hadn't realized Reddit moderator and WGTC-debunker Pierre Chanliau was a writer for that site).

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)