Marvel News

Deadline is reporting that Kevin Feige is taking creative control over Marvel TV and animation--they will now be under the Marvel Studios banner. This comes on the heels of Variety's speculative article in late September that there would be no more Marvel Entertainment as a separate TV entity (something both GWW and Conrad latched onto, the latter copying the former). Prior to that, the only rumours we were getting were from LotLB, who kept saying TV/film would all be connected, with Tim's idea being that Loeb would now cooperate with Feige (I can't recall them saying he'd report to him). My struggle in accepting this was the involvement of ME Chairman Ike Perlmutter, but it appears as though Disney CEO Bob Iger was able to shift the TV/animation control away from the curmudgeon, leaving him with toys and comics. I don't expect the change to impact Hulu's upcoming Helstrom (how can it at this stage?), but I imagine whatever other plans Loeb had beyond that are over. Daniel RPK claims Loeb will retire next year (via the live chat of LotLB's show, link below), which is the best move for all parties involved.

Murphy says Ant-Man 3 is coming, guessing July, 2022, saying:

About 2 weeks ago, I was told it was expected to film Summer of 2021. Yesterday I found the hard evidence I was looking for: Pym Particles Productions III LLC was formed a little over a month ago. [This is the production company name used for the previous films] ... So while I haven't been given a release date for AM-3, my thought process is that if it does in fact film in Summer of 2021, it will be the July 2022 film.

If this is true, and Murphy's track record is good enough that I think at least the film is coming, it's a surprise. Neither of Peyton Reed's films have shared the success of other MCU films (more about that below) and while the first Ant-Man made up for that in home release, Ant-Man and the Wasp didn't have the same cache. Doing it soon is a good decision, because much of the cast is old (Paul Rudd will be 51 next year, Laurence Fishburne 59, Michelle Pfeiffer 62, and Michael Douglas 76). I really liked the first film and hope the third can be a return to form--presumably it's purpose will be to serve Cassie's growth into a hero (as I mentioned awhile ago, there's not much point in signing Emma Fuhrmann unless you are going to use her).

In terms of prior speculation, back in September Sutton said the IP would be a Disney+ show; in June Paul Rudd was campaigning for a sequel (clearly a decision to go forward hadn't been made yet); and back in May a 4channer claimed it was being discussed, but wasn't yet in development (which matches Rudd's subsequent efforts). WGTC, in July, said the film would be on hold until the next Avengers--clearly not.

There's an angry slice of the MCU-fandom that doesn't accept that in relative terms the Ant-Man franchise has been a disappointment. These folks (Conrad included) try to use the numbers as their defense--it's not dissimilar to DC fans who argue that Shazam is a hit because of its perceived profitability. I've addressed this before, but I think it's worth going over again because it's unrelated to what I think of the quality of the films (I love the first Ant-Man). Let's compare MCU non-Avengers installments in their first two outings (factoring inflation after the slash; budgets in brackets, keeping in mind this doesn't include marketing which is often in the 100 million range, but can be much higher):
Phase One
Iron Man 585k/696k (140)-Iron Man 2 623k/735k (200)
Incredible Hulk 263k/312k (150)
Thor 449k/511k (150)
Captain America 370k/421k (140)
Phase Two
Thor 2 664k/717k (152.7)
Captain America 2 714k/771k (177)
Guardians 773k/834k (195.9)
Ant-Man 519k/560k (109.3)
Phase Three
Doctor Strange 677k/713k (165)
Guardians 2 863k/906k (200)
Spider-Man 880k/924k (175)
Black Panther 1.346k/1.372 (200)
Ant-Man 2 622k/675k (162)
Captain Marvel 1.128k (175)*
* The high end of the estimate

Let's keep things simple and look at profits--we'll ignore inflation and keep with a flat, 100 million marketing cost across the board, still organizing by Phase/profit:
Phase One
Iron Man 345
Iron Man 2 323
Thor 199
Captain America 130
Incredible Hulk 13
Phase Two
Guardians 477
Captain America 2 437
Thor 2 412
Ant-Man 310
Phase Three
Black Panther 1.049
Captain Marvel 853
Spider-Man 605
Guardians 2 563
Doctor Strange 412
Ant-Man 2 360

What's apparent is that Phase One numbers aren't particularly helpful (other than to each other)--it was a very different world before The Avengers. The apples to apples comparison for Ant-Man are the nearest new IP, since we start to get a runaway affect as the power of the MCU, particularly the hype for Infinity War and Endgame, boosted new entries (particularly Black Panther and Captain Marvel). Those release buddies are Guardians of the Galaxy and Doctor Strange. Guardians was a much more obscure property, but very similar in tone (a heavy emphasis on humour); Strange was better known, but had to introduce an entirely new element to the MCU (magic) and had a darker tone. On the flip side, Ant-Man was much cheaper to make, but even factoring that in it made significantly less profit (75% of Strange and 65% of Guardians). Moving on to its sequel, it was roughly on par with the Guardians sequel (64%), but in terms of increased profit it's a meager 14% despite spending 33% more. As with Shazam (164 to the positive), the numbers simply don't back the idea that the Ant-Man franchise has shared the success of the other MCU IP. This isn't to say it hasn't been profitable, because it has, but in relative terms it's at the bottom of the MCU barrel.

One interesting bit of fallout from this news is it revealed the kind of sources Andre has for the MCU, which is to say, Google (or so it seems). In his breakdown of the above situation all the 'inside scoops' are directly (or indirectly) from Mikey Sutton's interpretation (my guess is he learned of Sutton through former associate Matt Jarbo). This is very different from his actual insider for Star Wars (leaks from Jarbo's Discord revealed it's the husband of a woman who works at LucasFilm). Sutton, while he has a long track record within Marvel scoopdom, had been quiet for quite some time (from what I can tell he switched to DC for awhile, at least judging by his largely dead Twitter account), so he's not likely someone Andre knew previously. I think Andre is far better off leaving the MCU to others--he doesn't care for it and doesn't have inside scoops for it, so why put out subpar material? (The reason, of course, is views, thus the horrendous and now laughably debunked Captain Marvel videos from earlier in the year, eg).

Collider is reporting that Jade Bartlett will be writing the second Doctor Strange film, which is interesting because back in January Murphy reported that Scott Derrickson buddy C. Robert Cargill had been hired to write the script. What's not clear is if Bartlett is fixing Cargill's script or completely re-writing it--I'd guess the former. The first Doctor Strange was written by Jon Spaihts and Derrickson, with Cargill coming in to tweak it, so I think this is the same idea, but with Barlett in Cargill's role. It seems to be fairly common for things like this to occur for Marvel, as it has with Black Widow and (at least via rumour) Shang-Chi.

According to THR the budgets for the initial slate of Disney+ shows is 25 million an episode (considerably higher than The Mandalorian's 15/per). This matches what was reported by Variety back in September (which gave a broad range of 100-150 per show--depending on the episode count this would match the 25/per 4-6 episodes).

Charles Murphy says Ms.Marvel will begin filming in April, which makes sense given the push the character is receiving from Avengers (the 2020 video game, where she's the lead). A 4chan post dropped and, besides repeating the casting speculation of GWW below, adds:

"Kamala Khan is a 16 year old Muslim who gets injected with Inhuman powers after a field trip. Khan needs help from The Royal Family to control her powers. 20 year old Muslim actresses are the finalists for Khan. Himesh Patel and Mindy Kaling have been offered the roles of Aamir Khan and Muneeba Khan. Riz Ahmed was recently approached for a role. Brie Larson will have an appearance as Captain Marvel."

I don't think Marvel will care about the actress playing Kamala Khan fitting one of the ethnic groups of Pakistan (she's from Karachi, which is an enormous and diverse city, although historically it's primarily Balochis and Sindhis--the former are an Iranian people, the latter Indo-Aryan; both Patel and Kaling are of Indian heritage).

GWW say the Inhuman royal family is being cast for Ms. Marvel (or, at least Black Bolt and Maximus). Rumours about the former go back to LotLB in September, while the idea of an Inhumans reboot goes back to December (Adam McKay) and June (WGTC). GWW suggests Vin Diesel for the former and Aaron Taylor-Johnson for the latter--I think both ideas are preposterous. The casting might be true, but the actors in question I don't buy (see below).

The same Redditor (TheManOnTheInside) who posted about Loki has posted about a rebooted Inhumans:

• The Inhuman Royal Family will indeed return in the Ms. Marvel TV show, and will be completely rebooted, rendering the terrible cancelled ABC series completely non-canon.
• The rumors of Vin Diesel and Aaron Taylor-Johnson are totally false, especially since Aaron already played Quicksilver and will be reprising his role in WandaVision.
• Marvel plans to have the group appear in future Marvel Studios projects, but probably never a solo film. They will, however, factor into at least a few potential crossovers.
• The Inhumans could also appear in Captain Marvel 2 as supporting characters.
• Marvel is indeed looking at actors to play the new Royal Family, but they haven't quite narrowed it down to anyone yet.

This entire post seems to have been made to refute GWW's idea above (for the source of their return go here). In LotLB's live chat (below) Daniel said Ms. Marvel was being used as a backdoor to reboot the Inhumans IP. For those who may not remember, Inhumans was on the MCU slate from October, 2014, until April, 2016 (Joe Robert Cole, who would later co-write Black Panther, wrote a script, and Diesel was attached as Black Bolt). In July (of 2016) Feige said "I think Inhumans will happen for sure. I don’t know when. ... And I think as we get into Phase 4 as I’ve always said, it could happen as a movie. I think it would be super cool." It seems like he's getting that Phase Four appearance.

The Redditor also posted about WandaVision:

• The series will feature Wanda living in a pocket dimension that she created using her powers, where she and Vision are a happy couple with a pair of young children.
• In this reality, her brother Pietro is also alive and is one of their neighbors.
• As the concept art showed, the show will have a "classic sitcom" feel, and the world Wanda creates will resemble a 1950s/1960s-era suburban neighborhood. [This matches the official teaser art we've seen]
• As we know, other random characters from the MCU will be appearing in the series, such as Jimmy Woo, Monica Rambeau and Darcy Lewis.
• Agatha Harkness (Kathryn Hahn's character) is the main antagonist, and she is a disciple of Nightmare.
• As stated officially before, the series will directly tie in to Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. The way this will happen is that Wanda's reality-meddling tore a rift in our dimension, allowing for Nightmare to gain a foothold through Wanda.

This is similar to Daniel's rumour, but his doesn't include her brother Quicksilver, but he does specify who he thinks the children are (4chan, same link, also includes Wiccan, with rumours about the character going back much further, explored via the link). Daniel doesn't mention the villain, but both 4chan rumours do and they echo the above (only the first mentions Agatha). The reappearance of Quicksilver goes back to LotLB in August (if not earlier).

He then posted about Ghost Rider:

• As you all know, the Ghost Rider Hulu series was recently cancelled, and it was indeed thanks to interference from Kevin Feige.
• Feige's plans for the character are as follows:
• First of all, he is keeping the Robbie Reyes version of the character, but whether or not Gabriel Luna will remain in the title role is up to debate. This WILL be the same Ghost Rider introduced on Agents of SHIELD, however, and the show will indeed remain canon. [I have no idea why it would be the same character but not Luna]
• Ghost Rider will get a Disney+ miniseries. Mephisto will be the main villain.
• Afterwards, Ghost Rider is being planned to appear in a Midnight Sons team-up movie that will likely get a 2024 release date. Doctor Strange, Blade, Moon Knight and Elsa Bloodstone will be a part of the film as well.

The was echoed, in brief, by Daniel in the LotLB live chat (link below; did Danial simply read Reddit, or is the poster putting up things from Daniel's Patreon? I have no idea). The only Bloodstone rumour I can recall comes from WGTC in May (we know WGTC doesn't have an inside source, but they may have got that idea from elsewhere--the only other link I could find via Google was a wishlist from What Culture in January). I'm not convinced Feige will want to canonize Agents of SHIELD, although having it occur in another universe is a possibility. I have no attachment to Gabriel Luna or his portrayal (I have zero interest in Agents of SHIELD), but now that Feige is running all Marvel Television it's quite likely he'd want to put the IP in action. As for Mephisto, speculation about him has been floating around for quite some time (ever since Thanos was teased in the MCU), but none of the scoopers have put out stories including him recently. I recall LotLB talking about a Midnight Sons team-up for Hulu back in the day, but didn't jot it down since it was a hypothetical show after things like Ghost Rider and Blade had appeared there.

We can already cast doubt on the 4chan Shang-Chi rumour as it claimed Jessica Henwick was approached to join the film--we now know she's signed on to Matrix 4, making her unavailable (it remains possible she was approached and turned it down).

An entirely different Redditor has posted a very different version of the Shang-Chi story that reads both like a Bruce Lee movie and the Tournament of Champions from Iron Fist:

• So, basically, an alien spacecraft landed in China hundreds of years ago. The spacecraft was powered by the Ten Rings, magical relics that all serve a different purpose. The rings were looted by a secret society known as the Avatars, which is led by a wise martial artist simply named the Ancestor. The Ancestor wore the rings and used them to become an expert fighter.
• The Mandarin grew up hearing about the Ancestor's story and was fascinated by it, despite everyone else believing it was just a myth. He began to idolize the Ancestor, and devoted his life to finding the rings. This inspired him to form his own mafia, which is the Ten Rings gang. Basically, the point of the gang is to look for the rings all around the world. He adopted his niece, Fah Lo Suee (Awkwafina) and taught her martial arts.
• After years of investigation, he discovers that the legend of the ten rings are real, and that the Ancestor is dying. There was a leak a little while back at Shang-Chi is a tournament film, and that's actually true. When the Ancestor dies, the Avatars will run a secret tournament/kung fu trial in which the winner will be granted the rings. The Mandarin is too old to compete, and he doesn't want to risk Fah Lo Suee's life. That's where Shang is going to come in.
• Shang is a street urchin who meets the Mandarin after he begins dating Fah. The Mandarin takes a liking in Shang and starts training him as his apprentice. His first task, as an act of gang initiation, is to kill Trevor [Slattery] for impersonating the Mandarin. People speculated that they will be related, but it will be more of a Walter White/Jesse Pinkman dynamic.
• When the tournament begins, the Mandarin will send Shang to win and get the rings for him. That'll be the basic gist of the film pretty much. I know that defeating Fin Fang Foom will be an obstacle. Leiko Wu and Clive Reston will be in the movie as SHIELD agents who are investigating the Ten Rings gang. Shang-Chi will obviously betray the Mandarin and become a hero over the course of the film. He will get the ability to create multiple duplicates of himself. It will be an 'Orphan Black' situation, where each clone of himself has their own personality. So the fight scenes will obviously be insane to witness.
• Marvel is casting Shang's enemies in the tournament, and one of them will be a character named Chao.

The only official comment on the film is that it's tone would be like The Matrix, but the above sounds like Enter the Dragon merged with a B-movie sci-fi plot. Oddly, even though a martial arts fest is something fans have speculated about for the IP, none of our rumour-mongers have done the same (in fact, we've had no hints about the plot from the usual suspects)--what speculation we have is that it's a spy thriller. I highly suspect the above is bogus.

LotLB (who apparently talk to Daniel RPK and get along with him)

• There are talks of adapting "Triumph and Torment" for a future Doctor Strange film (which features Doctor Doom and Mephisto)
• Starfox/Eros is coming [he's an Eternal who isn't in The Eternals]
• Disney+ series on the Thanos family
• Spec list: Bug (of the Micronauts, who apparently is not owned by Hasbro due to when he was created), Jessica Drew (despite the Sony rights issues), Stryfe, Wrecking Crew

They've spec'd on Jessica Drew before, but with Sony owning her rights this would apply to them and not the MCU (even though this is an MCU spec-list). I don't believe the Thanos scoop at all--it would be a hugely expensive idea and one completely lacking stakes. The Wrecking Crew matches the post we had on Reddit about Loki.

While the show was going on Daniel was in the chat he dropped/reiterated the following scoops:

• Werewolf by Night in Moon Knight [This echoes a GWW story from August; LotLB claimed he'd have a Hulu show months earlier; more recently a 4chan post claimed he'll be the main villain in Blade; I'm not sure what role he'd have in Moon Knight, while if he's with Blade that would echo the Underworld franchise]
• Hercules for Disney+ [The last rumour we had about him was from LotLB who said he'd debut in Thor 4; we can also take this as an opportunity to debunk an old 4chan rumour from January which claimed he'd be in The Eternals--clearly the writer was swayed by Murphy's speculation he'd appear there (as I always say, Murphy's speculation is usually awful)]
• Repeated his claim of the MCU building up to a Young Avengers show [A show makes a lot more sense than a movie, since in tone it would be very similar to the CW]
• There are plans for Elsa Bloodstone on TV [Echoing the Reddit post above]
• Man-Thing is in early development [Echoing LotLB in August]
• Beta Ray Bill will be in Thor 4 [This is easy speculation since he was cut from Ragnarok; the last rumour we had about him was from the now silent TMSM who claimed there were casting calls for him--which seems preposterous--prior to that there were a pair of 4chan posts in May that both put him in Guardians of the Galaxy 3--perhaps because at the time it was thought that film would come out before Thor 4]
• Repeated his claim about Wiccan/Speed in WandaVision

It's been interesting watching Ed Norton's complicated relationship with Marvel over the years--the actor has often sounded bitter (apparently he thought his Hulk film would echo the Christopher Nolan Batman films), but recently mentioned being open to playing a villain role in the MCU. I don't imagine Feige would go down that road at this point, but it is funny how a passing decade has shifted Norton's thinking. I'd enjoy seeing Norton play an alternate universe Hulk, but I don't imagine that will happen.

We have some closure on the Reddit sock account that has been attacking anyone that wasn't Jeremy Conrad or his friends: it has been deleted (hopefully permanently). You'd have thought the slanderous statements from a few weeks ago would have done it (the link), but at least it's gone.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)