Marvel News & Notes

Before I jump in to the article I wanted to note that I've started doing vlogs based on the content here (this is the channel). I'm not tech savvy, so for the moment it's just me talking, but for those who prefer that medium it's available. The plan is to post here and then follow-up with a vlog covering that material.

The run time for the final episode of WandaVision leaked immediately (again from Reddit), coming in at 50 minutes (including all the usual extras), meaning the show will be just under six hours (350 minutes). This means that none of the episodes were HBO/Netflix-style. The leaker was incredibly vague on content, merely saying there would be a Maximoff/Vision fight against the big bad (what else could there be?). One of the fascinating things I still hear people talk about is a surprise tenth episode--Lauder and Sutton are among those pushing this, but I don't find their arguments persuasive.

Episode eight was yet another step back for me, although reactions I've seen have been more positive (leaning on emotional moments). Elizabeth Olsen's performance holds it together, but a lot of the sloppiness that's plagued the B-plot is apparent here (for that read here). Given how much effort was put into the show's sitcom elements, everything else looks hastily thrown together. The entire episode is one giant exposition dump serviced through flashbacks--these explain a few things, although Agatha doesn't need most of this information and what little she did could have been gleaned from Evan Peters' Pietro through talking to Wanda (which is a long way of saying its self-indulgent rather than necessary). The Reddit leak from the day before it aired proved to be 100% correct, incidentally.

Agatha's origin story suffered from flaws similar to Monica's (link above), where scenes intended to be emotional lacked the depth required to create those emotions. The decision to use Latin as the source of incantations isn't inherently bad, but it reminded me of Harry Potter and that ruined my immersion. I suspect the intention was to make witch magic distinct from sorcerer magic, but I just kept expecting the ladies to chase after the golden snitch or go get Dumbledore for some help. The scene is also baffling historically--apparently among the early colonists was a coven of witches, meaning the Salem persecutors really did have witches hiding amongst them. Why the witches want to kill Agatha is left vague--we know she used forbidden magic, but not what that was or why it was forbidden, and that she's irredeemably evil, but not why or what evil she's committed (this fails the classic storytelling dictum: show don't tell). Having her mother lead the group is a decision that will need to bear fruit to avoid being arbitrary (how that will matter, I have no idea); we're also left in the dark over what she's been doing all this time--in theory she should have been on the Ancient One's radar in the 17th century, so why wasn't she? Unfortunately, I don't think the show has those answers (it feels like a J. J. Abrams mystery box, where not even Abrams knows what it means). What we really need from Agatha is sympathetic motivation, otherwise she's going to fall down the Hayward-hole of being bad just because.

One of the better reveals in the episode is that Agatha wants to break Wanda out of her reality, which better explains her actions within the sitcom setting. We also learn that Agatha is not responsible for Pietro, just that she's using him as her eyes and ears. Some have taken this to mean he's just a random guy (eg Screen Crush), but I find that improbable. Marvel likes simple solutions because it's the best for a casual audience. The simple solution is he's Peter Maximoff from Fox, summoned via the Multiverse to fulfill Wanda's need for her brother to return (another alternative, albeit a less satisfying one, is that he's Jimmy Woo's missing person). Admittedly, having him be a nobody and never seen again is another kind of simple solution, but it's far less satisfying. We know Wanda didn't create him (if she did he'd look like Aaron-Taylor Johnson), and this would tie-in to what's going to happen in both Doctor Strange 2 and Spider-Man 3. If Evan Peters is a random guy, there's also no Multiverse tie-in in WandaVision--unless, perhaps, the Vision she created is from the Multiverse.

We then get a lengthy Wanda flashback divided up this way:

• c.6min as a child - This explains the sitcom premise of the show as well as showing that Wanda had magical powers even then; the scene debunks the theory that the actors from the commercials were her parent's (something I never thought made sense)
• c.3min with Hydra - Emphasizing that the Mind Stone enhanced her power; I'm uncertain what the point of seeing herself as the Scarlet Witch in silhouette was, but presumably it's meant to anticipate her upcoming transformation; the lack of Strucker (Thomas Kretschmann) and Aaron-Taylor Johnson's Pietro is distracting and smacks of budgetary restrictions
• c.3min with Vision during Civil War - Character building for their romance, a set-up for the sitcom reality, and expressing her grief over her brother's death (something that would have been more effective if they'd used Aaron-Taylor Johnson in the prior scene)
• c.10 min preamble to the show's beginning - Wanda interacts with Hayward (Josh Stamberg still can't act), see's Vision's body, then flees to Westview where in her grief she creates the sitcom reality of the show

We wrap up with Agatha threatening Wanda's kids and a mid-credit scene of Hayward activating his weapon, White Vision. Agatha does not come across as intimidating--she's cartoonish and hasn't harmed Wanda directly or indirectly, so there's no sense of threat. It's the same tone used at the end of the previous episode and it's incredibly off-putting.

Something I did like about the conclusion was the idea of a 'Scarlet Witch' being a kind of category--that you become. Apparently that's a thing in the comics. It's an interesting take on the identity and offers a better reason for her to be called that beyond simply being a superhero name. It does seem a little derivative of the Phoenix-force from the X-Men, but it's different enough that I can live with it.

Overall it's not a bad episode, but I expect better (if the emotional beats don't work, as they didn't for me, there's very little to grab hold of). My primary feeling watching was impatience for the plot to move forward, because none of the emotional beats were new--Wanda's parents appear and die immediately (she'd already mourned them in Age of Ultron and earlier in the show), Pietro dies off-screen (she'd expressed grief for him in Age of Ultron and the show), etc. None of the intended pathos worked, except for the momentary power of the performances between Bettany and Olsen. Now that we're nearly done the show, I can see why Jac Schaffer's Black Widow script had to be shredded.

The finale has very little left to do, as the leaker indicated above. Beyond battle we'll get a resolution for Evan Peters (as in, find out who he is), although that's been shoved so far into the background it seems largely unimportant (this applies to Jimmy Woo's missing person as well). Doctor Strange will arrive and there will be a set-up for Doctor Strange 2. It's not clear to me if Marvel wants to keep Agatha around as a villain--at this stage I'd say no, but perhaps my mind will be changed when I see the finale. She is not, incidentally, the Big Bad of Phase Four--Marvel likes to tease characters like that first.

One thing to consider is we've been told the show ends on a tragic note. In the comics this would be the deaths of Billy and Tommy, but all the leaks are pointing to Vision dying (again), which is what I'm expecting. However much we try, there's no escaping The Young Avengers.

More 4chan about the show, this time purportedly describing the final episode:

It starts off on the night of the Brady Bunch episode [episodes 3-4], where Wanda already had her kids [episode five]. Wanda and Vision have a short conversation about being parents and then it cuts to them a while later being asleep in bed. Shows Wanda having a nightmare as we get flashes of ATJ [Quicksilver] as well as the young version played by the actor we saw playing Pietro in episode 8 [Gabriel Gurevich rather than Joshua Begelman].

Cuts to outside in Agatha's yard, where Evan Peters is being formed in the same way Vision was with the yellow/orange strands. Agatha sees this from her window and goes out to approach him. Peter quickly freaks out and starts speeding around everywhere. Eventually he comes back to Agatha asking her wtf is going on. She seems to kind of put two and two together here and quickly hexes him, bringing him inside. Cuts back to Wanda and Vision where Vision wakes her up, asking if everything is alright. She says it was nothing and she goes back to sleep, while Vision looks at her in a concerning way.

The way this is written is confusing, but I think it's not too hard to interpret. I doubt this, as you don't want to follow a flashback episode with another series of flashbacks. None of this is necessary either--all it really does is explain Evan Peters, something that can be done through a few lines of dialogue.

More 4chan:

I have a friend who works in special effects for various studios. He mentioned that during the final battle sequence there will not be any new villain that shows up but rather two ‘battles.’ Wanda and family vs Agatha and then Vision vs White Vision.

Vision ends up sacrificing himself to defeat white vision and agatha gets away during the confusion.

The final post credits scene is Agatha with the rabbit who is nightmare. He shape shifts on screen and all the audience sees is his shadow while he talks to agatha. Afterward it says agatha will return in multiverse of maddness.

This is quite similar to a 4chan post from a few days ago (with Vision sacrificing himself, the nature of the fights, and no new villain introduced). While the whole "I know a guy" is a meme, the idea is plausible, as I think it's far too late to introduce a new villain in the final episode (outside a post-credit scene); it also fits my idea that Doctor Strange isn't showing up to save the day, but pop in after Wanda defeats Agatha herself.

Daniel says we'll see The Illuminati from another reality in Doctor Strange 2, which is fascinating to me as it's exactly what Sutton said back in January, 2020. Could this be what Chris Evans is signing for? I mentioned when discussing his return that there was no point in signing him then unless it was for a project filming soon--Doctor Strange 2 is filming now, which is plenty soon. Food for thought.

We've had a lego leak for Shang-Chi, which didn't show anything we didn't know before (although it is our first sign of merchandise for it). This film remains one of those oddballs where the scooper community is very excited, but the general public is not. We can't truly judge fan reaction, however, until we get a trailer and that's a long way off.

Pierre Chanliau, via some Instagram sleuthing (Charles Murphy-style), has discovered that actress Alysia Reiner is in Ms. Marvel. He's unsure who she's playing, guessing it's a villain--possibly The Inventor. As someone utterly unfamiliar with the IP, I don't have a better guess to offer.

Back to Daniel, he posted a casting list from Production Weekly and here are the interesting bits:

[Villain] Supporting Diverse

Set: Zawe Aston

[Supporting Male Role] (Supporting 20s-30s)

Prototype: Thimothée Chalamet, Michael B. Jordan

[Red Herring Role] Cameo Any

Prototype: Clive Owen

Dies early in the film

This is pretty vague and post-dates the official announcement for Aston. It's difficult to imagine two actors more different than Chalamet and Jordan (the former is 25, white, thin, and French; the later is 34, African-American, and ripped). This suggests they have no firm idea for the character (as in, who he is doesn't matter very much). I'm lost on why the film needs a fake-out character--outside of Hitchcock this kind of thing rarely works (I remember the hilarity that greeted Star Trek: First Contact's push for Neal McDonough's lieutenant Hawke as a new member of the crew). While I'm not excited for Captain Marvel 2, I am curious what Marvel is going to do with the film--the elements going into it are all very soft (by which I mean, not that popular), so bringing in the casuals is going to be an interesting task.

I was curious if we'd get a response to K. C. Walsh's revelations about the Gemma Chan drama on set--often there's a heavy dose of condemnation for the person publicizing it. What have we seen? As predicted, nothing. No one is talking about it. It's like it never happened.

This reminds me that there were stories almost a year ago from Daniel about how The Eternals was rushed into production--without a complete script, fully finished costumes etc. This did the rounds at the time, but hasn't been discussed since. No one has disputed what was said, which suggests it was indeed rushed.

Sutton reiterated his old Strange Academy scoop, but unlike in August he specified it was for Disney+ (originally he thought it was either that or an animated show). This is a rare instance when another scooper (Daniel) specifically debunked the idea, saying the IP was not coming. I have no strong feeling either way--Strange Academy is a fairly new IP. Sutton's argument is that it's meant to echo Hogwarts and draw in Harry Potter enthusiasts--it's possible I suppose, but I think there's a serious tonal issue between it and comics (you can see from Ant-Man's box office that when the MCU pushes strongly towards a younger audience it drives some people away).

Sutton says that Spider-Man will appear in the Fantastic Four film and have a love/hate relationship with Johnny Storm (echoing Dan Slott's I'm With Stupid team-up from 2005). You may have noticed that Sutton has a lot of material related to Spider-Man and there's good reason for that--I've surmised for quite some time that his source (or one of his sources) is at Sony, so anything involving their IP he has insight on. That doesn't guarantee that this is true, but puts it in plausible territory.

Sutton also talked about Spider-Woman and whether or not the film will have an MCU connection. This idea is not original to him, as Murphy brought it up way back in January, 2019 (we've also had director Olivia Wilde vaguely hint at Feige's involvement). Sutton's article says that talks happened about an arrangement similar to the one with Spider-Man, but he doesn't know how they went (this echoes what Murphy said last March). I believe those talks occurred and that it's likely that Spider-Woman is going to be shared in some fashion.

We have one more from Daniel's rumour file:

• Henry Cavill has reached out to Marvel after the news about the J. J. Abrams' Superman

The sentiment about this is pretty common. It's believed Cavill refused to cameo in Shazam for money reasons (or, perhaps, a desire for a renewed commitment) and whether anything has changed since then I don't know. It's likely that WB execs, who want to move away from the Snyderverse, consider Cavill a big part of that and want a change in direction. The DCEU has been such a confusing mess it's hard to know what will happen moment-to-moment.

In a Q&A Sutton had a lot to say:

• The MCU will cast their own Magneto even if one (or both) of the Fox iterations appear as part of the Multiverse. [This is my expectation as well (Feige said he wanted to do something completely different with the IP)]
• Agents of Atlas (either a film or show) is not currently in development, but he believes it will be gradually built towards ala The Avengers. He says the first character to be teased besides Shang-Chi is Sword Master, who will appear in Shang-Chi 2 (a film that's also not confirmed, although Sutton believes it's coming, cf); oddly, I can't find a specific reference to Agents of Atlas from Mikey in the past, so I must have missed jotting it down at the time
• He repeated that Marvel was looking at Jennifer Lawrence for Susan Storm, but that she's not signed [Let's recall that what was debunked was Fantastic Four filming, not her casting, which remains up in the air]
• There are discussions to have the Killmonger Black Panther take over the romance with Storm (which would make sense). This is dependent on Michael B. Jordan's availability, since (according to Sutton) he's very interested in Superman
• Repeated the scoop that Alpha Flight will appear in a Wolverine vs. Hulk film (cf)
• Tenoch Huerta is playing the Kasper Cole version of White Tiger in Black Panther 2 (cf)
• Sony Pictures will be bought out in a couple of years; he reconfirms a new deal has been struck between Sony and Marvel (cf), which I think is likely
• Repeated that Marvel wants Mike Colter back as Luke Cage (cf)
• Thunderbolts and Excalibur are both coming; he's dubious the former will involve Norman Osborn (who wasn't part of the original scoop from Roger Wardell back in 2018, cf), the latter will be headed by Black Knight and Captain Britain (cf)
• Namor news has died down--he's coming, but not for awhile [It's worth recalling that Sutton believes Marvel has his rights back; I go over the problems with his reasoning for that here (with some additional info here)]
• A Disney+ show for Gambit is still in the works (cf)
• Repeated Midnight Sons is coming (consisting of at least Ghost Rider, Blade, Jennifer Kale, and Glyph, cf)

After Sutton's recent AoS story he's moved on to Jessica Jones. Since some of Mikey's content has been disappearing from his site, I'll quote him:

When Krysten Ritter returns as Marvel Studios Jessica Jones, she will not be toned down for Disney Plus; the new show will still be for adults. However, do not expect to see it on Disney Plus. Rather, Hulu. … when I scooped back in September 2019 that the Netflix Defenders would return on either FX or Hulu with their original casts, skeptics held up their torches. … What I’m hearing now is that the Jessica Jones revival is possibly the first MCU program on Hulu. … Hulu is going to take the smaller, rated R material like Jessica Jones and, in the future, The Punisher. No development for the new Jessica Jones has begun yet; furthermore, they haven’t started negotiating with Krysten Ritter. Yet. What I do know is that they have talked about introducing private detective Dakota North on the show.

The hardon Mikey has for Hulu is difficult to understand. That aside, there's important context here: when (in 2019) Sutton made the claim the Netflix shows would come back, he was under the impression that it would be via Jeph Loeb and Marvel Entertainment (working under Kevin Feige). Instead, Feige came in like a wrecking ball, forcing Loeb out and cancelling all his planned shows. I believe Feige's recent comments about R-rated material means it's not a priority for the MCU. I'm not saying it will never happen, but I'm not expecting a big push for anything R-rated. The final note here is just a funny one: Dakota North is a monument to missed speculation from Tim (LotLB) about which ABC-show was in development in 2019. We now know it was Elsa Bloodstone, meaning there's been nothing happening with Dakota North.

More broadly, could we get Jessica Jones with Krysten Ritter in the next couple of years? Maybe. Not, I think, with the Netflix continuity, especially since the second and third seasons of that show were awful (showrunner Melissa Rosenberg's deal with WB has gone nowhere as a result), but the possibility of a reboot exists. The problem with the idea is that Jessica Jones, as a function in the Marvel universe, is most impactful in relation to other characters as opposed to on her own, which is to say she doesn't need her own IP to fulfill her purpose.

I've mentioned before how insular the scooper community is and there's an example of that on Reddit. Back in July a Redditor dropped scoops for both WandaVision and Thor 4, but these were removed with a great deal of hostility by Murphy's source for WandaVision (another Redditor I mentioned previously). Someone with a good memory believes that much of what they wrote has been verified by WandaVision, so here it is for us to judge ourselves, starting with the Disney+ show:

Sooo, yesterday I had dinner with friends and one of them brought another friend who worked in the production of WandaVision and is working right now in the production of Thor 4. HUGE SPOILERS

Spoiler: WandaVision:

The plot involves Wanda creating a dome around a small town, controlling the whole population, where she changes reality to make everything look perfect. Each time there is a glitch in the reality, Wanda changes decades (that's how the sitcom thing change), and everytime something bad happens the character of Kathryn Hahn is involve.

Kathryn Hahn is in fact the big bad of the show, playing a powerful witch (not Agatha Harkness according to this guy).

The show ends with the revelation of the Kathryn Hahn character and Wanda in full Scarlet Witch mode, having a big battle a la "Dragon Ball Z".

He wasn't sure if Doctor Strange appears in the end and didn't remember anything about Evan Peters character or if Aaron Taylor-Johnson appears.

Wanda's twins appear at least in their teens.

The 00's sitcom parody is Malcolm in the Middle.

There will be flashbacks to Wanda's childhood, when she started showing her powers

This is not 100% accurate, but in spirit it's close enough for a forum like Reddit. What's funny to me is that Murphy's source, who only had access to insights on WandaVision, has been acting like she's a serious Marvel insider for months and has a lot of sway with mods--it's very strange. Here's what the poster said about Thor 4:

The main story is Jane having cancer and somehow she manages to lift the hammer and this cancels her disease, but does not cure.

Lady Sif is alive, Thor will find her in an ice planet with a complete new look. She dies at the end of the movie.

Valkyrie is a supporting character, her sexuality will be explicit. She appears the same amount of time as Lady Sif.

Christian Bale is in fact the big bad.

The GotG will appear.

Loki does not appear.

Thor goes to Valhalla where dead characters will appear. (The guy only confirmed Idris Elba [Heimdall] appearance but I suspect more characters will appear)

He describes the movie as a road-trip comedy around the universe

I actually covered this part of the poster's scoop at the time, but because I dismissed the WandaVision element (specifically due to the person denying that Agnes was Agatha Harkness), I assumed this was incorrect as well. The text from my link is slightly different because the person who reposted this talked to the original poster and a bit more was added through those conversations. I think the idea of Sif having a fairly minor role and dying is plausible--Taika Waititi gleefully destroyed all the background characters from the IP in Ragnarok and Sif was intended to be among them. Do I think this is completely accurate? No, because the WandaVision material isn't either, but I suspect the thrust of what's said is true. One interesting side note: if Sif dies it's a blow to a couple of people who have claimed a show with her is coming (Discussing Film and Sutton, specifically).

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)