Marvel News & Notes

The Shang-Chi trailer dropped and for me it was adequate (not as fumbling as a Sony trailer, but not as spinetingling as the first Black Panther trailer). The action looks good, but we get no sense of Simu Liu's acting. This absence isn't crippling, as clearly the film wants to emphasize action, but as someone with limited interest, I would like to see more of the film's other elements. The one thing the trailer clearly established is the starting point for the film: Shang-Chi was given ten years by the Mandarin to live his life, but is now being called back. This basic idea, of a familial (or pseudo-familial) connection between the two goes back to the earliest scoops/leaks (cf).

One of the fascinating results of the release of this trailer is the apparent lukewarm response in China. Comments that were looked at by The Direct indicate dissatisfaction with Simu Liu and the lack of anyone from China involved with the production with cache for this kind of film. Maybe this is just malcontents and not representative, but it is interesting. We can't forget that Mulan, which was made in part to pander to the Chinese market, was aggressively rejected. It's still possible for Shang-Chi to perform well in China, but if it doesn't it will be interesting to see how the MCU responds (given how popular the brand is there).

This news made me curious how the trailer had hit overall so I did some comparisons via social media impressions on Google Trends (apples to apples here, as we compare it to other MCU IP):

Shang-Chi doesn't register against either of the Disney+ shows that are out or the next two that are coming (Loki and Hawkeye), so below I compare it to other obscure IP (incidentally, in the first chart note how relatively anemic Falcon has done vs WandaVision):

Here the film jumps ahead of The Eternals (whose marketing hasn't started yet), but it still has a huge mountain to climb for awareness/excitement, because when you track it back to the original announcement there has been no broad public excitement or interest. This puts tremendous pressure on marketing (rather than leaning on a preestablished base--through characters the public recognizes, like Falcon and Bucky, or an IP that's inherently popular, like the Fantastic Four). Keep in mind, Black Widow is the next film, so there's plenty of time for a strong marketing push to raise its visibility (a tie-in from a Disney+ show wouldn't hurt either, although we don't know if that will happen).

Variety (Matt Donnelly) reports that Emilia Clarke has signed on for an undetermined role in Secret Wars. Someone at Marvel was clearly a fan of Game of Thrones, as she's the third member of the cast to join the MCU (after Kit Harrington (Black Knight) and Richard Madden (Ikaris)). Clarke's career outside of GOT has a similar arc to Harrington's, as her films have bombed or disappointed (although her fails are much bigger related to expectation). When the news dropped, Sutton wondered if she could be Abigail Brand (one source said as much, but he couldn't get confirmation). It's plausible. I'm on the fence when it comes to Clarke's acting ability, but if the role is right that won't matter.

Prior to that, THR (Borys Kit) reported that Olivia Colman would be joining the cast, but without speculation on the role. Colman is a superb actress with tremendous range, although how well that shines will depend on showrunner Kyle Bradstreet (unfortunately, our first two Disney+ shows struggled mightily with plot and story).

Neither announcement makes me anymore interested in the show--that will require a trailer (the concept does nothing for me). There's also some 4chan chatter about the IP below.

Sutton dropped a scoop that the MCU plans on Spider-Man's Uncle Ben moment on coming from Aunt May--either in No Way Home or in his fourth film, with May dying. He adds that the film "underwent several script changes due to the global pandemic and creative reasons as well. It's the most experimental of the trilogy. I don't know how much of this remains intact. For example, Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock wasn't initially in this movie. But COVID-19 production delays pushed it back enough that Marvel Studios had the Daredevil rights back from Netflix." I quite like this idea. In many ways, the first two Spider-Man films have lacked the kind of punch this would provide (even though Iron Man, his mentor has died), although it's not clear what May's death will mean in terms of who he is (Ben's death is what turns him into a hero, but of course in the MCU Peter is already one).

Speaking of Spider-Man, GWW's K. C. Walsh is implying the MCU will merge with the previous Sony films. Walsh has a decent track record, but I wonder if this implication is simply a matter of loose language in a Tweet. I'm not sure what benefit there is in dragging in the Sony material unless Feige is going to have a hand in it.

Sutton, adding to his Patch scoop for Wolverine 2, says the villain Roughhouse will appear. I don't think anyone was holding their breath waiting for the Asgardian, but he's one of Wolverine's antagonists in Madripoor.

Sutton had a couple of interesting things to say. Ghost Rider's destination (film or Disney+) depends on how Blade performs. He says Zack Snyder has been discussed as helming such a vehicle, but hasn't been approached. I don't think Snyder will enter the MCU fold (they've shown a strong preference for lesser known directors), but if given a good script and restrained from some of his bad habits, he has the visual styling for it at least.

Sutton says Marvel is interested in a Daughters of the Dragon Disney+ show with the original actors. Putting Mikey's inexplicable fondness for Simone Missick aside (whose incoherent character blundered through Luke Cage and The Defenders), Jessica Henwick was fine in her role, although you'd need to jettison her goofy Netflix backstory. That said, while I think Marvel might like the IP, this would be a long, long, long way off, and Missick is already on the old side for this kind of role (Henwick turns 29 this year, so that's not a concern). I don't see this happening. My problem with Sutton's default position of everything-but-Finn Jones-returning is that it comes across as wish fulfillment--how is Feige doing something different if he simply brings all the Netflix actors back? It's such a limiting approach. What I can see is extremely selective picks from those shows, but not down to the secondary characters like this.

Speaking of Netflix, THS (Santos) is making a habit of recycling old Sutton material, Tweeting out that Daredevil, Jessica Jones, the Punisher, and Kingpin will appear in the MCU with the Netflix actors. Santos says the latter will appear in Echo and might cameo in Hawkeye; he adds that both Iron Fist and Luke Cage will be re-cast (an idea that makes sense to me, but Sutton continues to say Mike Colter will return).

Cineverso (Alex de los Llanos) says that Hercules and his fellow Olympians (specifically Zeus and Ares) are coming, based on talking to someone who worked on The Eternals and/or Loki. The idea of Hercules appearing is a very old idea, with Daniel suggesting a Disney+ series way back in October, 2019, although he first came up via LotLB (TBK) back in July of that year for Thor 4. Sutton has also got in on the action (cf), echoing Daniel's notion of a Disney+ show (and see below).

I haven't indulged in speculation over who the Power Broker is in the show (I don't really care), but the common speculation is that it's Sharon Carter and that's certainly what Murphy believes. I'm not sure what the point would be--unless she's a Skrull--but it's food for thought. I'll also reiterate what can be seen above on the Google Trends graph--in terms of chatter, at least, the show lags well behind WandaVision (something also apparent from the viewing numbers that are coming from Nielsen--see below).

Incidentally, I was surprised to see an attack on the Flag-smashers as villains from Collider, who would be near the top of the list of Marvel apologists. While the article itself is a mixed bag in terms of analysis (the author is riding a particular hobbyhorse she's trying to hide by not being explicit), but her point here is on-target and is a sign that even among the hardcore fans this part of the plot isn't working.

More Nielsen numbers for WandaVision: it was 11th among streaming shows the week after the finale and dropped to 16th the next week, rebounding slightly at 15th afterwards. Falcon and the Winter Soldier's first week ranked 6th, which is surprisingly low (behind Ginny & Georgia, Grey's Anatomy, Criminal Minds, NCIS, Cocomelon, and Heartland).

    

Deadline (Dade Hayes) brings us the Sony-Disney deal (US-only again) that will allow Spider-Man to appear on Disney+ (in a move I think most of us expected). This doesn't debunk the idea of shows on Amazon.

Murphy did an AMA on Twitter while watching Nobody and said the following:

• Yes to chances of Wanda being a villain
• Heard Armour Wars is for 2022 [You can tell the person who copied his answers is either Canadian or British from the spelling]
• Hasn’t heard anything regarding Silver Surfer
• Other Netflix Defenders other than Daredevil coming to Movies/Disney+ [See the notions above from THS and Sutton]
• Multiverse of Madness will have surprising cameos [Ralph Bohner and Daffy Duck incoming]
• Not a word on Quake or AOS characters [This is not a surprise--I've long held that it's unlikely we'll ever see AOS characters]
• Says Yes to MCU having their own Norman Osborn (I think) [See below]
• Dafoe’s Goblin and Molina’s Ock are exclusively for [No Way Home]. No future appearances in the MCU (I actually ask this question) [This makes sense]
• Confirms again Charlie Cox as Daredevil but gave vague response to question of him appearing in She-Hulk
• Daredevil will have long-term presence in MCU [He's a popular character, so that makes sense]
• Not sure about Thunderbolts set up in F&WS but hope they will
• Doesn’t think Trickshot will show up in Hawkeye but would like to be wrong
• Not sure if Cox’s Daredevil is the same Netflix version or rebooted in [No Way Home] [I'd be shocked if they maintained the Netflix continuity, granting that the sloppy writing in the first two Disney+ shows have also been shocking surprises]
• No idea on Red Hulk appearing in MCU
• Not all Villains on [No Way Home] will be from the Multiverse
• Hasn’t heard anything regarding Dehaan for [No Way Home]
• Hasn’t heard anything about a new Cap movie starring Sam
• Norman Osborn coming “soonly”

Broadly this illuminates his opinions and what he does and doesn't have sources for (it is interesting that he doesn't back up Daniel's many claims). There's nothing surprising here.

Sutton Q&A

• Repeated that Elektra is coming in a Daredevil context [If that's the case, given that Feige doesn't like repeating things, it's unlikely we'll see The Hand given how involved they were with both Daredevil, Iron Fist, and The Defenders--we can hope a more comic accurate version of her will appear]
• Repeated there are plans for U. S. Agent (John Walker) as a member of Thunderbolts
• Repeated that Jimmy Woo will form Agents of Atlas and will pop-up in Shang-Chi 2
• Repeated Marvel wants Moon Knight to join the Midnight Sons
• Repeated that most of the lead Netflix actors will come to the MCU, but in new continuity [see above]
• Repeated that Excalibur will be a show and is still in development with Black Knight as the leader [cf]; then that Captain Britain will play an integral role in Black Knight movies [How that meshes with the idea of an Excalibur show he is in is not clear to me at all]
• Repeated there are plans for Moondragon and Phyla-Vell to appear, but he's not sure when or where [The idea of the former is primordial, but the latter first showed up via Daniel back in September, 2019]
• Repeated that Darkhawk will appear in a Nova film [cf]
• Repeated that Shang-Chi will fight White Tiger at some point [An idea that goes back to LotLB's TBK back in July, 2019]
• Claims there will be another season of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but it will be called Captain America and the Winter Soldier [At this stage I can't say I'm looking forward to it]
• Brother Voodoo will be part of Midnight Sons [The last time I can remember Sutton talking about Brother Voodoo was in December, when he believed he would probably get his own show--no talk about the team-up]

I can't help but point out Mikey has had some misses in his Q&A's (back in July he said the Namor rights were back at Marvel and a film was in development--neither of those things are true and when asked about it recently he said there was no news about Namor--where's the movie Mikey!).

More from our friends at 4chan and here:

I can reveal that Quake will be in Secret Invasion, however this will not be Chole Bennet. This makes it implicit that the Agents of SHIELD is not connected to the MCU franchise. Marvel Studios is looking for a young Chinese-American woman, aged 20-25, to play the role of Daisy Johnson in Secret Invasion. The role will be more similar to Hawkeye in Thor or Maria Hill in Avengers, a secondary command character who answers to Fury. I have no other information at this time, just this specific casting. It would be inaccurate to call this a “re-cast.” It’s only a re-cast in the same way Andrew Garfield was for Spider-Man or Christian Bale was for Batman, it’s a new version of that character for that world.

And

So with regards to the casting of Secret Invasion, Marvel is casting for a young woman of Chinese ethnicity, aged 20-25, to play the role of Daisy Johnson aka Quake. One leaker stated that “recast” is technically inaccurate as this is a new version of the character for the MCU, separate from the Agents of SHEILD universe. Like the comics, despite being young, you get the idea she has been at this “for a while,” compared to the relatively older Chole Bennet version. For reference, the comics note she already had Level 10 clearance at age 17. The role is minor. Saying she is like Hawkeye in Thor or Maria Hill is inaccurate, as this is a show so she will have multiple scenes. I’ve been told to think it closer to Jimmy Woo in WandaVision, a character meant to drive the plot while opening the door to more appearances. To go off that statement, leakers believe her appearance will set up Agents of Atlas in some form similar to Woo in [WandaVision], but that’s just speculation. The point is this is a new Daisy Johnson played by a new actress for a new interpretation of the character

The two broadly agree that a rebooted Quake is coming and Agents of SHIELD will be jettisoned to the dustbin of history. This makes sense to me (as does the idea that Agents of Atlas is just speculation), but there's no specific reason to believe either of these folks have inside information to back it up.

4chan claims Rachael Taylor is in talks with Marvel to return as Hellcat for an episodic Disney+ series; as far as we know only She-Hulk would qualify among what's been announced. This fits the endless Netflix speculation (see above), but I again find it hard to believe Feige wants to just copy/paste all that material into the MCU. I quite like Taylor, but the bizarre things done to her character in the second and third season of Jessica Jones are best forgotten.

More from 4chan:

Marvel is working on a Defenders movie. Completely different from the show, the team line-up theyre looking at is Dr. Strange, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Ghost Rider, and possibly Thor or America Chavez (I don't believe they'll add Chavez but thats what im being told, so take it with a grain of salt). The early idea included T'Challa, however with Chadwick Boseman's passing they're looking for a new member, and dont want to use their Black Panther yet due to them being so new. Ghost Rider is slated to appear in [Doctor Strange 2] and so is Chavez, no clue how theyre going to include him as it sounds like an already bloated movie and I have no information on that film. Ghost Rider will be Johnny Blaze. The draft I've heard of has demons being the main villains, with DS, SW, and Ghost Rider clearing them off of Earth. No clue how Thor gets thrown in there, the description I was given was super messy. Ends with Ghost Rider and Strange confronting Mephisto and beating him, freeing Ghost Rider to do whatever the fuck theyre planning for him.

The idea of Ghost Rider as Johnny Blaze and appearing in Doctor Strange 2 is straight from Mikey Sutton (he references it in the Q&A above). The basic idea of a Defenders team-up is also from him (cf), albeit the lineup is different. In essence, then, this seems largely composed of old Sutton scoops.

More 4chan:

• Thor
• Idris Elba returns in Thor Love and Thunder. [A now common rumour]
• Gorr the God Butcher will kill The Grandmaster, Lady Sif, Korg, Fake Thor, Fake Loki, Fake Hela and Fake Odin. Obviously not all at the same time. The Fake Characters dying are comical bits. [This sounds horrendous, but we have to see it in context]
• He will also cause significant damage to Mantis and Nebula. In a very interesting scene Thor attempts to hold off Gorr as Drax picks up both Mantis and Nebula and carries them to safety. I do not know where Quill, Rocket or Groot are during that scene. Gorr defeats Thor and he is forced to run away to survive. He is found by Lady Sif and she nurses him back to health. [These specifics are unique]
• The Greek Gods will be introduced in Thor LAT. I believe Russell Crowe is playing Zeus. [The basic idea echoes the rumour above] [Post-published note: Daniel has just confirmed this]
• Loki
• Idris Elba also returns in Loki but its not the same Heimdall in this show. [The first teaser strongly suggested he'd appear]
• Hela and Kang will also briefly make appearances in this show. [The former I've never heard before]
• Richard E Grant plays the Possessor in Loki. [There are a number of beings in the MCU with that name or title, but I think he means Kamo Tharnn, one of the Elders of the Universe]
• Hawkeye
• Clint Barton retires for good at the end of this show and this will be the last appearance from Jeremy Renner possibly forever. [Not the first time we've heard this--that's the best choice if you want to lean on a successor character]
• There are two secondary antagonists. Taskmaster and The Swordsman. AIM is the primary antagonists. [Taskmaster isn't someone I haven't heard of in this film]
• US Agent (John Walker) is also in this show. Hawkeye is "recruited" for his team but he decides to retire instead. Kate Bishop joins US Agent's team at the conclusion of the show. [This seemingly funs contrary to her appearing in Young Avengers]
• She-Hulk
• Obviously we know that Abomination is the main antagonist. Thunderbolt Ross is also in the show and eventually becomes the Red Hulk. [The latter is a very popular rumour]
• Various Information
• The Mutants will start to make an appearance after [Doctor Strange 2]. The Darkhold and the multiverse are the reason they start to show up.
• These actors and actresses have been cast in undisclosed roles for upcoming shows and movies: Charlie Hunnam, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Kiernan Shipka, Jim Carrey, Gwendoline Christie, Michelle Dockery, and Richard Armitage. [Some of these names are regularly in the rumour mill, some are not, but it looks like someone's fan list]

Other than the fan casting at the end, this isn't implausible.

4chan on She-Hulk:

I work in pre-vis at a medium tier FX company. We were contracted to do some work on She-Hulk.  All I know is what we did work on, which is only 3 scenes and some basic establishing shots of jets and military vehicles. I worked on a set piece where She-Hulk fights Abomination in Times Square (I'm assuming. Looked different from 2008 Incredible Hulk but I don't know who else it could be.) It's like a straight up boxing match, Jennifer fights so much different than Hulk. Very agile and mma based, while also having Hulk strength. I didn't work on these scenes, but the other ones I heard about were Jennifer easily grabbing a helicopter out of the air mid take off, and her fighting a floating green guy who is shooting beams at her. I thought that might be the Leader but I don't know that he matches up to that

Even if this is true, it doesn't carry our understanding about the show forward at all.

Daniel rumours (his Ryan Reynolds rumours are so omnipresent and ridiculous I've cut them):

• Important characters die in Spider-Man 3
• Torres the next Falcon the MCU
• Scarlet Johansson returning to the MCU (Daniel talks about her salary, but that's a less interesting thing)

All three are popular rumours--grains of salt required.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)