MCU and Comics: April 2021

Friday, April 30, 2021

Marvel News & Notes

Clearly, Marvel has no issues at all with the various problems in Falcon and the Winter Soldier, as THR (Kit/Crouch) says showrunner Malcolm Spellman will write the next Captain America film. This is deeply concerning, although Jac Schaeffer (whose poor writing hurt WandaVision) had her Black Widow script thrown into the dumpster, so we can hope for the same approach to Spellman. Regardless, I'm now in the unfortunate position of worrying about the quality of Loki, the show I'm most excited about.

After this story came out, Deadline (Kroll/D'Alessandro) repeated that Chris Evans is in negotiations to return and that it's likely whatever project he's returning for is separate from Spellman's (which is just common sense). This is an unfortunate situation for both Anthony Mackie and the MCU at large, because given how weak Falcon was, Evans will overshadow him. I don't think a Falcon film with, say, Torres as his sidekick, will generate much interest (echoing the same circumstance in the comics).

On the numbers side of the show, right after I dropped the Nielsen ratings in my Falcon and the Winter Soldier episode five review, a new set covering the first two episodes dropped, putting the show 3rd overall and 1st among original programming, which has since been updated to three episodes where it seems to be 2nd (overall and among originals behind The Irregulars), although there may be data entry errors as it's minutes watched has not changed in the update. It's a fascinating spike and I'm interested to see if it will continue. As I'll get into in my review of the show, what we do know for certain is that Falcon generated far less social media chatter than WandaVision.

One of the main takeaways from the Disney+ shows thus far is how limited they are: WandaVision had three goals (Wanda becomes the Scarlet Witch; Vision is back; and tell Monica Rambeau's origin), Falcon had five (Falcon becomes Captain America; Bucky is mentally fine; tell John Walker's origin; Sharon Carter is a villain; and Zemo is held in the Raft). All these things are easily summarized in a film for those who did not tune in.

Lizzie Hill wonders if Bucky will become Nomad (Murphy's IP scoop four months earlier), based largely on a few comments in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. While it's certainly possible, I'm not sure what the point would be--where would you take his character at this point (what evolution, really, is left for him)? With that said, I love Sebastian Stan, so any excuse for more of him is welcome.

Sutton believes the recent Disney-Sony deal for US streaming is a sign of a renewed deal forthcoming. While I agree with his conclusion, I don't think the deal itself means anything given that Sony signed a very similar (but more comprehensive) deal with Netflix beforehand (also US-only)--especially considering not all their Marvel IP is going to Disney+ (cf).

Nick Santos' (THS) is repeating Norman Osborn rumours from the past (as well as unabashedly repeating Sutton's take above), albeit with a different slant. Here's the substance:

We know Norman, played by Willem Dafoe in the Raimi films, is making his [MCU] debut. Many people have questions about what this means for the MCU. Part of this new deal means that Marvel has access to characters that they didn’t have before. Norman Osborn/Green Goblin was one such character. Disney and Marvel Studios have wanted to use him, but his rights were exclusive with Sony. Meaning Sony were able to use him in full, but Marvel Studios, up until last week, couldn’t. Obviously, things got murky with the inclusion of Willem Dafoe’s Goblin, but that has sort of softened up Sony to the idea of sharing the character.
Marvel Studio’s plan was to bring in Willem Dafoe as the primary villain for [Spider-Man 3], but I can exclusively share that because of this most recent deal there now exists a separate version of Norman Osborn in the MCU. Peter will begin to research his earth’s version of Norman Osborn after fighting with Willem Dafoe’s Green Goblin; but there’s a twist, he’s seemingly not an awful guy. He has political aspirations, makes charitable donations, and even supports The Avengers. They’re playing off the idea that it’s a different earth, and no villain or hero is guaranteed to be on the same path.
What Marvel has wanted to do is explore Norman more; and without putting him in a Goblin outfit (at least not right away), start to peel back the layers of his villainy. This will take place over the next 3-5 years as Marvel begins to set him up as a major villain for both Spider-Man and The Avengers going forward. Marvel has offered the role to an actor who has not accepted the role yet. This actor is a prominent New Yorker who has a history with Marvel Studios. When or if the deal is finalized, we’ll share more.

There's a remarkable assertion here, which is that Sony and Marvel have agreed to an alteration of their sharing agreement very recently to allow an MCU version of Norman Osborn, and that the role has already been offered to an actor. What's less contentious is that Feige would want a different kind of Osborn in the MCU--that's very on brand for what Feige has said about rebooted characters in the MCU. The idea of Dafoe's Green Goblin as the main antagonist for Spider-Man 3 is something Daniel has recently echoed. It also behooves me to add that Sutton, back in October, 2019, said Chameleon would be the primary antagonist of Spider-Man 3--not so much (although he and others have said the film has undergone extensive changes since its original conception).

I can't decide if Santos is another Joshua Munn--someone who makes plausible sounding speculation from what's known, but has no actual inside information--or has an actual source (in the article he claims to have seen a 'document'). The odds are the former, but we can't yet dismiss the latter.

Sutton, echoing Giant Freakin Robot (Dietsch, using one source), says the Punisher will face off against Spider-Man in the future. Sutton adds that there are plans to include Daredevil, having already said Kingpin will appear, if perhaps not in the same film. I like the idea, although this implies an adult tone that's absent from the Sony films thus far (how it handles this kind of story matters more than who appears).

Daniel (aka Production Weekly) has dropped production information about Amazon's Silk series (a reality which, I think, makes connections between the MCU and Sony's Marvel much more difficult to argue for).

Episodic getTV /Amazon
Start Date: End of August 2021 thru February 2022
[CINDY MOON]
Character portrayed is Korean-American and female presenting, 19-29 years old. Christine is an indomitable spirit who can’t help but care. After years abroad doing field research in remote isolation, Christine instantly quit her job and returned home when she learned her family had gone missing. A prototypical first-born daughter of immigrants – smart, self-assured, funny but trying to please everyone – Christine will find her family at any cost. But she's been under-socialized and her predilection for extreme empathy forces her to feel the emotions of everyone around her deeply. So, she both seeks connection and gets it in unexpected ways, if not always with the people she wants. Still, you mess with Christine at your peril: she has a spine of steel beneath a warm exterior.

This sounds like a generic YA story aimed at a female audience and, indeed, I'm sure that's the intention (all its missing is a love triangle). Given that we have production dates attached, it seems a lock to go forward. What's not clear is if Sony will attempt to integrate its streaming shows with the movies (or, indeed, if it can given Amazon's involvement).

Sutton (and Kieran Bugg) wrote about Spider-Woman possibly being in the MCU and let's look at the key elements:

Sony and Marvel Studios would like Holland to cameo. … Insiders told Geekosity that Spider-Woman’s presence in the MCU was integral to the new streaming arrangement. ‘Disney wants all these Spider-Verse movies on their network once they’re off Netflix. Once that was agreed to, Marvel Studios was open to more collaborations with Sony beyond Holland’s Peter Parker.’ … Sources leaked that both studios are close to finalizing the decision to have Spider-Woman enter the MCU and eventually join the Avengers.

There is some confusion here, as Sutton writes "The agreement brings Sony's library of films to Disney Plus after a brief exclusive window on Netflix." That's not true at all--the deal signed was US exclusive and only included part of Sony's library. I think what he's referring to specifically is Sony's Marvel content, but we don't even know if that's true in the US (see above). He also says "Questions about whether Sony's Spider-Verse spinoffs will be connected to the MCU seemed to have been answered." Do they, when some of them are appearing on Amazon? Sutton also thinks Spider-Woman will be connected to Secret Invasion because in the comics that happened, but I think that's unlikely since the latter will film before the former.

Those concerns aside, this echoes Santos' notion that Marvel is in the midst of negotiations with Sony to expand the existing sharing agreement.

Sutton understandably saw the reveal that Russell Crowe will play Zeus as confirmation of his story about Hercules (cf, in which the character will get his own Disney+ show). He thinks a cameo by the character in Thor 4 is likely and so do I. He also repeated that Marvel was most interested in the 80s version of the character via Bob Layton's 1982 limited series (one that emphasized comedy).

Apparently there's a dedicated blog to Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan), Ms Marvel News, claiming to have a scoop about the show:

According to our source, the MCU’s Red Dagger will have a drastically different history than his comics counterpart. For starters, there are going to be multiple Red Daggers of Pakistan who will play a key role in the second half of the show. The character that Aramis Knight portrays, of course, will be part of the group, too, but his name will be Imran instead of Kareem. In this adaptation, his connection to Kamala will be more of a friendship, rather than a romance like in the comics. Kamala’s connection to the Kamran (portrayed by Rish Shah), however, will remain romantic.

Changing things for a character who has never been that popular is a good idea, although the above doesn't make me any more interested in the show.

More from 4chan (Spider-Man 3; I've left the colourful spelling intact):

Spiderman 3 Details (REAL) Expect the first teaser trailer in July.
Tobey and Andrews is not the same spiderman in the past movies more likely an alternate Raimi Spidey, alternate Webb Spidey. Same with the Villians that is going to show up from the Multiverse
Mysterio is alive and well, his benefactor is Fisk.
Norman osborn is messing with Oscorp technology and trying to communicate with himself through the Multiverse He's the reason of Spiderman Villians from the other Universes showing up in the MCU
Norman osborn is running for Senate and planning to Build a team to replace the Avengers
The 3 spidermans needs to capture the Norman Osborn of Tobey's universe that's been contacting Norman osborn in the MCU Tobey maguire ends up sacrificing himself at the end of the movie
We're getting a Miles Morales sony movie (Miles morales from Tobey's universe)
Andrews is sticking up with Doctor Strange to find his way home. i guess he's in DS2 [Doctor Strange 2]

I don't buy this at all--I'm including it simply because some people are. One of the main problems is the inclusion of Wilson Fisk--if Vincent D'Onofrio (or another Kingpin-like actor) was on-set, it would have been spotted and reported just like the other cameos. I like the idea of Miles at Sony, however.

Reddit (Spider-Man 3):

1-The problem of Peter identity being revealed will be resolved quickly and will not be the focus of the film. Peter will go to school normally.
2-Marvel carefully chose the characters that will appear in the film, having a hard time with Sony (which changed the script several times to add new characters, making Kevin Feige intervene in favor of the director)
3-It was difficult to convince tobey to reprise the role of spider-man. The rumors about him demanding $ 20 million are false, the real reason being that the actor believed he was old for the role.
4-The film would bring Peter of Tobey older and more experienced, but they decided to use CGI to rejuvenate the actor and it will be the same Peter of 2004. Andrew Garfield will be the same as TASM2. [This sounds pointlessly expensive]
5-The doctor strange will show the way back to the world of each version of Spider-Man, Andrew will be aware of not letting Gwen die, changing the ending of TASM2.
6-3 endings have been recorded and Marvel has not yet decided which one will be used. The film will be smaller than speculated and 90% of the rumors are false! I participated in the recordings of 1 of the finals and I can say that the audience will be divided, as it is too early for a certain character to return (I'm not talking about mysterio, he is incredible in the film).
7-I am part of the creation of the conceptual arts and I went to the set several times with the team to see what we were going to have to represent, I can say that “there is a guy devouring worlds, that is, devouring realities”. [This sounds like Galactus, which would be an odd way of introducing him]
8-Nicholas Hammond returns, please don't be speculating that he is Ben! Small participation along with Thomas Howell.
Pay attention to the hawk [Hawkeye] series, the ending connects a lot with "no way home"

I'm inclined to dismiss this, although I'd be interested to know why the poster thinks Hawkeye will lead-in to Spider-Man 3.

4chan (Spider-Man 3):

The movie opens with the daily bugle. Peter is on the run, he tries hiding by sleeping with the homeless, he gets caught. He is defended successfully in court by Matt Murdock. Everyone still knows who Peter is. Peter goes to Sanctum and messes with something, he then enters a trippy/dream like state where he revisits his past from the moment he got bit to Uncle Ben dying etc, Peter also lives through the other Spidermen’s lives in a weird way. In the movie Peter visits Ben’s grave. Dr Strange is not always on screen as he uses his voice to guide Peter through different realities. Tobey Maguire has an emotional reaction to seeing Ock again, Ock hasn’t aged whilst Tobey has. They have a rematch. Not all villains are from their respective universe timelines as the Goblin is from a reality where he didn’t die. The Tinkerer is in the movie although I don’t know to what extent. The Stark arc reactor and technology used to time travel is present in the film. Ock goes crazy as he tries to find his wife in Tom’s universe but she doesn’t know who he is. The Spider-Men mentor Peter and tell him what they have been through and the consequences. The Goblin kills Ned, Peter fights back. Ned gets buried and Peter finishes high school. Strange gives Tom’s Peter a Christmas gift which lets him talk to Ben for a few minutes. Stark’s presence is felt in this film but Peter now thinks of him differently. Peter just wanted to protect the “Little guys” and hates how Stark bought him to Berlin which caused all of this mess. JK simmons plays multiple JJJ. The Scorpion is in the film and chases Tom’s Peter as his identity is still known. Michelle and Peter’s relationship does not continue.

I think this is nonsense (it's overly convoluted), although I'd be happy to say goodbye to Michelle.

4chan (Spider-Man 3; I only kept things we haven't heard a million times before):

Tom Holland's Peter Parker messes around with something that looks like a Globe toy (?) in the Sanctum Sanctorum (Tyler [his source] couldn't see this scene well because it was dark).
Spencer Smythe has a cameo. [The Smythe inclusion goes back to Murphy in October]
Gustav Fiers is in the movie.
Arian Moayed plays a detective.
Final battle is on the Statue of Liberty and it's holding a big shield of some sorts similar to Captain America.
Someone dies in this film but Tyler doesn't know who since he was only able to see Tom Hollands crying face and not the body.

This is a lot more restrained than most of the other things we've seen and nothing seems inherently implausible--still, grains of salt required.

4chan again (Armor Wars):

Sam Rockwell will return as Justin Hammer, freed from prison on good behavior and restarting Hammer Tech after Tony’s death
Hammer and Crimson Dynamo are the series’ main antagonists as they both attempt to steal Stark tech. Hammer is the “behind-the-scenes threat” and is trying to outsource his activities while he’s on parole; Dynamo is the “physical threat” who steals equipment by force. Dynamo and Hammer each think they’re using each other
Walton Goggins [Sonny Burch] returns to reveal he was working for Hammer, who had been pulling the strings from inside prison. Hammer is basically trying to hire people to steal different tech from the different heroes, attempting to synthesize the ultimate weapon (Pym Particles, Stark suits, vibranium, etc)
[Anthony] Mackie is set to cameo in the series, Marvel is trying to flesh out the Mackie/Cheadle chemistry in hopes to replicate some of the Iron Man/Captain America dynamic between the two [Given that Cheadle's age, this seems pointless]
Riri [Williams] is a recurring star in the series, sort of the protege of Rhodey. Think that kid from Iron Man 3, she sort of helps Rhodey out with some of the technical issues in his suit that he can’t understand. Series ends with Rhodey visiting her on her birthday with the full-on Ironheart suit for her, setting up her show

This is plausible, albeit the villains are traditional Iron Man foes rather than War Machine. I've always thought the show was meant to lead in to Ironheart, although if the character remains a Mary Sue that improved origin won't be enough to save her.

4chan (general):

Tigra is in She-Hulk. I don’t know who her actress is.
The Leader is the main villain of She-Hulk. He is the one that turns General Ross into Red Hulk.
Ghost Rider and White Tiger are two heroes set to appear sometime in the next year, but I’m not sure which movies they’re in
Hugh Jackman is 50/50 to return as Wolverine, but I don’t know if he would be the same as the Fox universe

This seems like a mishmash of other people's material, although White Tiger is usually a villain, so this is presumably the Angela del Toro version.

4chan (She-Hulk):

Hey I work on she hulk as a script supervisor assistant
Here’s somethings I can tell you rn
Ginger Gonzaga is playing tigra
Jennifer Walters was actually older than Bruce banner but due to the blip she’s now younger
Ty Burrell is returning
Liv Tyler [Betty Ross] is in the last two episodes
Paul Rudd’s ant man makes an appearance in the last episode
Tim Roth [Abomination] has a new look
General Ross teases red hulk
A-bomb is also teased
Amadeus Cho is in this
Mutants make an appearance
Jenifer Aniston was almost in this as Jen Walters older sister
Jessica Jones cameos as a private investigator for a rival lawyer in one episode

As everyone commenting on this pointed out, no script supervisor assistant would post this while declaring their position, so this is debunked.

4chan (Doctor Strange 2):

The name of the actors contacted by Marvel to play teen Billy and Tommy, are Jaeden Martell as Speed, and Noah Schnapp as Wiccan, they aren't be in [Doctor Strange 2] because his role will be for Young Avengers, also Jack Dylan Grazer were the first option for Speed, but he has a contract with DC There is also an option, that Julian Hillhard and Jett Klyne, grow up with their characters, but that depend on public opinion about the boys.
Wanda is a villain until after the middle of the movie, and yes, there is a fight scene beetween Strange and Wanda.
America Chavez arrives into the reality of MCU due the events of [Spider-Man 3], she is very important because her powers.
I don't have too much infomation about the cameos in the movie, but there will be 100% sure, I have only two names at this point, Bruce Campbell and Chris Evans.
Also, What If show is not only an animated alternative version of MCU superheroes, is too much more important than you think, related with this movie. [I don't believe this at all]
This movie are like Captain America Civil, this means that the movie will develop the character of Doctor Strange, but he is no the only main character, and the movie plot is not 100% Doctor Strange, that's why the movie will lasts 3 Hours.
Post credit scene of Spiderman No Way Home is about this movie. Also the movie have too many references and connections with Thor: The Dark World.
After this movie, Antman And The Wasp: Quantumania is the next big phase 4 movie and the last one for now

Clearly English was not the poster's first language, but that aside, this is vague and I frankly don't believe it--to me what drives home its flaws is giving importance to What If?, when the much more impactful Disney+ shows thus far have worked very hard to do accomplish nothing important at all.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Wednesday, April 28, 2021

The Universal Rights Situation for Namor

For quite some time there has been confusion within the fandom over what the situation is with Marvel's IP at Universal. It's broadly understood that they retain distribution rights to Hulk, Namor, and associated IP--or do they? The former is certainly true, but for years there has been conflicting comments over Namor, so let's take a look at that.

At various times a number of scoopers, from Sutton to Conrad to Murphy have reported that they believe the rights to Namor have been returned (either backed by specific comments from Joe Quesada, or a belief that a discovered production company is coded for the character). I think it's important to go through what information we do know. Here's a brief breakdown before we go through it thoroughly:

The deals for the Hulk and for Namor are separate; the latter was acquired by Universal no later than 2001; we do not know the specifics attached to these deals (unlike Fox, whose ticking clock for the rights to return was seven years, or Sony's, whose clock is at five and a half years)
2006 was the last reported active effort to produce a Namor-film by Universal (Jonathan Mostow replacing Chris Columbus on the project at that time)
In 2012, Joe Quesada said Marvel had regained the rights to Namor--I'll get into Joe's comments below
In 2013, according to Kevin Feige, the situation with Namor is unchanged
In 2014, Borys Kit (of THR) repeats Quesada's comment above via a Tweet, but going through the thread was uncertain about the situation
In 2014, Feige said the MCU could make a Namor film, but it would involve multiple parties (this is different from the Hulk rights, which only involves Universal); the comment implies Namor was on a development clock (thus the change in his language about what Marvel could do with the IP from just a year earlier), but had perhaps not lost their role in distribution
In 2016, Quesada repeats what he said in 2012 (I'll get into that below)
In 2018, Feige says Marvel could make a Namor film, but that it's not as 'clear or clean' as the majority of other characters

With the Hulk we know the impediment has always been that Universal retains distribution rights--Mark Ruffalo was complaining about it leading into Endgame, so clearly the contract elements related to distribution were different than they were for other Marvel IP. If there's a clock on distribution we're now at almost 13 years in with no change. Most assume that Namor functions the same way and, if it does, then that clock sits at nearly 15 years.

Here are various specific comments (Joe Quesada's can be found from 2012 and 2016)--Quesada in particular has been the primary source of confusion for scoopers over the years:

2012

At a convention Quesada says the rights to Namor had lapsed and reverted to Marvel Studios (I could not find a recording of this, so this is reported speech, but he's never denied the story)

2013

Feige tells Empire magazine: "That's [Namor] at Universal" (ergo, Quesada was wrong)

2014

IGN: Finally, there were rumours circulating awhile back that Universal and Legendary Pictures were developing a Sub-Mariner movie, but there was also some confusion about who holds the rights to the character. So could Legendary make that movie at this point?
Feige: No.
IGN: So if a film were to happen it would be you guys making it?
Feige: Yes, but it’s slightly more complicated than that. Let’s put it this way – there are entanglements that make it less easy. There are older contracts that still involve other parties that mean we need to work things out before we move forward on it. As opposed to an Iron Man or any of the Avengers or any of the other Marvel characters where we could just put them in.

2016

FATMAN ON BATMAN: Where is the Sub-Mariner, by the way? Who has that?
Quesada: We do. He’s in the comics.
FOB: No, what studio? How come you guys aren’t diving into the water?
Q: I can’t speak for studios.
FOB: Is it elsewhere? The same people that own Iron Man, have Sub-Mariner?
Q: As far as I know, yeah we do. It’s not at Fox, it’s not at Sony.

2018

IGN: With the Disney/Fox deal, if that pans out, with the Sony rights sharing deal with Spidey, the one big loose end, then, is Namor and Universal. Can you tell us what the status of that is? Is there any chance for him to just pop up in an MCU film? It just sounds like an incredibly complicated situation, for one character.
Kevin Feige: It is. I think there’s a way to probably figure it out but it does have — it’s not as a clean or clear as the majority of the other characters

Let's unpack this a little, since it's clear in his 2016 comments that Quesada has no clue what's going on with Namor. Until 2013 or 2014, Universal could make its own Namor-film. After that point, only Marvel could make a movie (so, seemingly Universal was on a production clock for the character similar to the Sony/Fox deals). By 2014, Feige mentions doing so involved old contracts (my emphasis) that impact Namor--contracts? Why the plural?

The only answer I've ever seen for why multiple parties are involved with Namor comes from Armin of ComicBookCast2. He said that because Namor is a mutant (named as one back in 1991), Fox would also have a stake in him. This is plausible and could explain why a film featuring him was so complicated to make. I believe this reality was echoed in Feige's comments in 2018 (before the Fox purchase was complete).

The assumption remains that Universal has distribution rights, because even if Armin is right about Fox, Feige said parties involved and there's no other known party. With the Hulk (and associated content) the limitation has been giving the character his own film--simply appearing isn't at issue. It may be that the Hulk could even have his own show (just like She-Hulk), but that's not clear. We shouldn't tacitly assume this is the same case with Namor, since those deals were made separately, but given that we have no other candidates it's what we're left with as a default. It's worth noting the reason we're saddled with Amy Pascal for all of the MCU's Sony projects is that she was included as part of the sharing arrangement (she was ousted from Sony six years ago, after all), so it's possible some other odious executive has their claws in Namor, but there's no evidence of that as yet. Presumably Marvel could buy his rights if Universal was willing to sell them, but I expect if such a move occurs it will pop-up in the trades (at a time for maximum publicity, lest we forget the many denials about the initial Sony deal until it was announced).

Given the hypothetical Fox-involvement is no longer an issue, why aren't we seeing a Namor film or at least an appearance? Marvel's approach with the Hulk has been to ignore Universal and work with what they are allowed to do, and if they can do the same with Namor, why isn't he on the slate?

The only two answers I can think of are either that he is, but those plans are for later in Phase Four or into Phase Five, or that there are stronger impediments to including him. There was a tiny hint that work on something Namorish could be occurring back in July when Sutton put Marrina on an R&D list. The character originates with Alpha Flight, but for a short time was Namor's wife. It's a stretch, but she actually spent as much (or more) time with Namor than Alpha Flight. There have certainly been many rumours he will appear in Black Panther 2, but not from anyone reputable.

At the end of the day we simply don't have all the answers, but regardless, I hope this article clears up what we know about his rights.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Saturday, April 24, 2021

Marvel Sony: What's Going On?

I've never exclusively talked about Sony's Marvel operation, in large part because I hoped it would have little to no impact on the MCU (outside Amy Pascal's unfortunate influence on Spider-Man). However, I think it's worth contextualizing what's happening and what we know--summing up the news and considering what it means. I should point out that I'm not a big Spider-Man fan--the X-Men were my entry point into comics--so while I read and enjoyed a small number of comics about the character, my attachment to him isn't strong.

Background for the Agreement

2014

November - In response to Sony's The Interview (which satirized North Korea's Kim Jong-un), the North Korean government hacked the corporation, causing chaos at the company and pushing the film into digital release. Among the many things that came from this (cf), were that Marvel and Sony had begun negotiating for a sharing agreement over Spider-Man (c.October); also released were emails that included racist content from Amy Pascal, resulting in her eventual resignation

2015

February - Sony and Marvel announce their sharing agreement

February - Tom Rothman, ousted from Fox in 2012, is installed as chairman of Sony Pictures; Rothman is best known for refusing to make Ryan Reynolds' Deadpool and micromanaging the Fox X-Men films to death

2019

August - Negotiations for a renewal of that deal broke down, with Sony trying very hard to blame Disney for this to no avail (cf)

September - After a stock dive mixed with withering criticism and ridicule, Sony agreed to a short-term renewal of the deal (cf) under the terms Disney originally offered

2021

April - Sony announces a 4-year US streaming distribution deal with Netflix for some of its material, as well as a requirement for Netflix to fund a certain number of Sony titles; this augmented a deal that was already in place for Sony animation

April - Sony announces a 4-year US streaming distribution deal with Disney+, with a specific emphasis that the Spider-Man films will be housed there

Sony Marvel Projects (excluding Spider-Man; arranged chronologically)

2014

Sony hacks revealed plans to produce an animated feature from Phil Lord and Christopher Miller; this was released as planned in 2018 as Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse; despite lackluster box office (375.5 million), the film received critical praise and a sequel is coming (see below)

2016

March - Venom (in Sony's plans since at least 2007) was given the greenlight and hit theaters in October, 2018, performing admirably (856.1 million) despite a critical drubbing

2017

March - A female-lead Sony film that was cancelled in 2015 (in light of The Amazing Spider-Man 2 failing and the deal with Marvel) was revived; Christopher Yost (Thor 2 and 3) was brought in to re-write the script for what was now Silver & Black (for Silver Sable and Black Cat); director Gina Prince-Bythewood signed on in May and filming was expected later that year; Gina started working on the script and a release date was set (February 8, 2019); in February, 2018, Gina was not happy with the state of the script, causing an indefinite delay and she moved on to other projects; Sony cancelled the film in August, aiming for two solo films (one for each character) that Gina would produce; by January those movie plans were gone and it became a Silver & Black TV series, but we've heard nothing official since; in October, 2018, Murphy (then at That Hashtag Show) reported that the film had been cancelled at Feige's behest since it would have included Norman Osborn [This is the only unrealized project that's had a release date attached; since then it's been a confused story of what will or won't happen with the two characters; Mikey Sutton claims Black Cat is slated for Tom Holland's Spider-Man 4 (cf)]
June - Kraven the Hunter was included as a project Sony would like to pursue on film; in August the following year Richard Wenk was hired to write it; two years later, J. C. Chandor was hired to direct and Art Marcum and Matt Holloway to rewrite the script [We've heard nothing since and many believe the character will appear in Spider-Man: No Way Home]
June - Mysterio was the other film being considered in the THR article above, but nothing more was said and given that the character appeared in Far From Home (a decision made no more than a month or two after this idea was floated) it seems dead [There's theoretically nothing preventing Sony from using the character in their own IP, but provisions in their agreement with Marvel may impact that possibility]

2018

August-ish - a Venom sequel was envisioned with pre-production beginning in September, 2019, and the film set for release two years later
August-ish - an Into the Spider-Verse sequel was envisioned and has a release date of October, 2022
August - Nightwatch was one of three films announced as being in development; Ed Ricourt wrote an initial script before it was passed on to former Luke Cage showrunner Cheo Hodari Cokier with Spike Lee considering directing; by October Lee had passed on it and we've heard nothing since [Another IP that seems more or less dead; it's unclear why Lee walked away from the project, although as with Silk below, finding investors was likely difficult]
August - Silk was announced as a film, but no talent was hired and the IP was shifted to an animated project; by December that idea was also dead and she became part of an animated female-team that hasn't materialized (a writer, Bek Smith, was signed); in September of 2020, it was being pitched as a TV-series for Amazon, then this March The Illuminerdi (Nebens, ergo Daniel, ergo presumably Production Weekly) claimed Sang Kyu Kim as the showrunner--there's been no confirmation of this [The constant changes suggest underlying funding problems for the obscure IP, but TV or animation is definitely the right platform]
August - Jackpot was the final film announced at the time and soon after Marc Guggenheim was hired to write the script (something not made public until May, 2020); no further talent has been attached [Just like Silk above, this does not seem like a film-worthy character]
Pre-November - A script for Morbius is completed, with production beginning in September and the film set to release in January, 2022
December - Amy Pascal said Sinister Six, cancelled in 2015 (the project beginning in 2013), would be back 'on' if director Drew Goddard wanted to do it; Goddard signed a four deal with Fox that March and we've heard nothing since [It seems like Goddard has no interest, which presumably means this iteration of the project is dead--particularly given how many members of the group have or are about to appear in the MCU films]

2019

September - Madame Web was announced with writers Matt Sazama and Burk Shapeless attached to write; in May it was reported that C. J. Clarkson (of the unaired Game of Thrones prequel) had been hired to develop Sony's first female-lead film, which is believed to be Madame Web [Until it has a release date and talent signed, I consider the prospect of this iffy; just like most of the projects above, getting anyone excited for this is a major challenge]
October - Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew) was scooped by Sutton when he put her on an R&D list, with claims of her arrival coming from elsewhere in February (Daniel claims work had begun two months beforehand); the IP was eventually confirmed in August, with Olivia Wilde attached to direct and Katie Silberman signed to write (keeping in mind Sony hasn't officially said that it's Spider-Woman or Jessica Drew)--it's worth noting that Wilde has two other films on her slate and its not clear when this one will actually gear up into production [Again we have no date, so in terms of investment by Sony this remains as ephemeral as most projects on this list]

2020

March - The Wrap scooped that Roberto Orci was hired to write an untitled Sony Marvel film; this might be one of the projects above, but we have no idea as there has been no news since [Given how Sony operates, this would be for a male-lead film, but otherwise we have nothing to speculate with]
March - The Illuminerdi (via Daniel, who echoed it, presumably via Production Weekly) that Solo and Man-Wolf were in early stages of development; there has been no word about either since [Given the lack of confirming information associated with this, either it never happened or the projects have been scrapped]
September - Fandom Wire claimed a Spider-Girl project was in the works, but we've had no news since [Given the lack of confirming information associated with this, either it never happened or the project has been scrapped]

The Sony Scorecard

Even ignoring the unconfirmed reports, this is fifteen projects--it looks ambitious, even audacious, but there are clear signs that Rothman isn't willing to push this agenda too far. Since arriving, only a third of these projects have gone beyond the point of a writer or (more rarely) director being signed, with four of the five produced films having been conceived under the previous regime (Pascal). This means the money spent on all these announced projects is minimal--no commitment, low risk. It appears the strategy is a mix of salving the enormous egos of his colleagues (Arad, Pascal, etc), putting on a front of independence (even though actual independence blew-up in his face in 2019), and attempting to drum-up investment--any takers for Silk? No? What about Jackpot? No? Hey, we've got Madame Web! Anyone? It's basically throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

The films that have actually been produced have leaned on stars--Tom Hardy and Jared Leto--a common approach from Rothman to mitigate risk. Most of the IP that Sony owns is far better off in animation or on TV, so for those preparing to line up for Man-Wolf in a couple of years, I wouldn't hold your breath. I believe the future of Marvel films for Sony depends heavily on how Morbius performs (I don't think a successful Venom sequel matters)--the character didn't have his own comic until after the film's announcement and that was cancelled after five issues despite plans for at least eight. Outside of Venom, Miles Morales, and Spider-Woman, nothing Sony owns has ever been viable (keeping in mind that cache itself is not enough to guarantee success). Both Marvel and DC are rushing to get all the "firsts" (female-lead, black-lead, etc), so Sony can't even push that button to generate interest.

The most popular theory regarding the Sony-Marvel situation is either that in a new, not yet announced deal, Feige will have even more creative control over Sony IP. This is usually followed by the idea that in the not too distant future Disney will buy Sony Pictures straight-up and get the rights returned that way (eg Sutton and a Redditor in October, 2019). I'm dubious of the latter, since if Sony Pictures is sold to anyone the rights are returned, so it's cheaper for Disney to have someone else buy it and have them defaulted. Regardless, for now we are officially at sea. We know Spider-Man 3 will integrate the prior Sony versions of the character--along with other characters from those films--channeled via the multiverse, but not what it means long term for either Marvel or Sony. Whatever happens, let's hope the film standards remain high after the sloppy writing we've seen on Disney+.

This article is written by Peter Levi (@eyeonthesens)

Thursday, April 22, 2021

Marvel News & Notes

The Shang-Chi trailer dropped and for me it was adequate (not as fumbling as a Sony trailer, but not as spinetingling as the first Black Panther trailer). The action looks good, but we get no sense of Simu Liu's acting. This absence isn't crippling, as clearly the film wants to emphasize action, but as someone with limited interest, I would like to see more of the film's other elements. The one thing the trailer clearly established is the starting point for the film: Shang-Chi was given ten years by the Mandarin to live his life, but is now being called back. This basic idea, of a familial (or pseudo-familial) connection between the two goes back to the earliest scoops/leaks (cf).

One of the fascinating results of the release of this trailer is the apparent lukewarm response in China. Comments that were looked at by The Direct indicate dissatisfaction with Simu Liu and the lack of anyone from China involved with the production with cache for this kind of film. Maybe this is just malcontents and not representative, but it is interesting. We can't forget that Mulan, which was made in part to pander to the Chinese market, was aggressively rejected. It's still possible for Shang-Chi to perform well in China, but if it doesn't it will be interesting to see how the MCU responds (given how popular the brand is there).

This news made me curious how the trailer had hit overall so I did some comparisons via social media impressions on Google Trends (apples to apples here, as we compare it to other MCU IP):

Shang-Chi doesn't register against either of the Disney+ shows that are out or the next two that are coming (Loki and Hawkeye), so below I compare it to other obscure IP (incidentally, in the first chart note how relatively anemic Falcon has done vs WandaVision):

Here the film jumps ahead of The Eternals (whose marketing hasn't started yet), but it still has a huge mountain to climb for awareness/excitement, because when you track it back to the original announcement there has been no broad public excitement or interest. This puts tremendous pressure on marketing (rather than leaning on a preestablished base--through characters the public recognizes, like Falcon and Bucky, or an IP that's inherently popular, like the Fantastic Four). Keep in mind, Black Widow is the next film, so there's plenty of time for a strong marketing push to raise its visibility (a tie-in from a Disney+ show wouldn't hurt either, although we don't know if that will happen).

Variety (Matt Donnelly) reports that Emilia Clarke has signed on for an undetermined role in Secret Wars. Someone at Marvel was clearly a fan of Game of Thrones, as she's the third member of the cast to join the MCU (after Kit Harrington (Black Knight) and Richard Madden (Ikaris)). Clarke's career outside of GOT has a similar arc to Harrington's, as her films have bombed or disappointed (although her fails are much bigger related to expectation). When the news dropped, Sutton wondered if she could be Abigail Brand (one source said as much, but he couldn't get confirmation). It's plausible. I'm on the fence when it comes to Clarke's acting ability, but if the role is right that won't matter.

Prior to that, THR (Borys Kit) reported that Olivia Colman would be joining the cast, but without speculation on the role. Colman is a superb actress with tremendous range, although how well that shines will depend on showrunner Kyle Bradstreet (unfortunately, our first two Disney+ shows struggled mightily with plot and story).

Neither announcement makes me anymore interested in the show--that will require a trailer (the concept does nothing for me). There's also some 4chan chatter about the IP below.

Sutton dropped a scoop that the MCU plans on Spider-Man's Uncle Ben moment on coming from Aunt May--either in No Way Home or in his fourth film, with May dying. He adds that the film "underwent several script changes due to the global pandemic and creative reasons as well. It's the most experimental of the trilogy. I don't know how much of this remains intact. For example, Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock wasn't initially in this movie. But COVID-19 production delays pushed it back enough that Marvel Studios had the Daredevil rights back from Netflix." I quite like this idea. In many ways, the first two Spider-Man films have lacked the kind of punch this would provide (even though Iron Man, his mentor has died), although it's not clear what May's death will mean in terms of who he is (Ben's death is what turns him into a hero, but of course in the MCU Peter is already one).

Speaking of Spider-Man, GWW's K. C. Walsh is implying the MCU will merge with the previous Sony films. Walsh has a decent track record, but I wonder if this implication is simply a matter of loose language in a Tweet. I'm not sure what benefit there is in dragging in the Sony material unless Feige is going to have a hand in it.

Sutton, adding to his Patch scoop for Wolverine 2, says the villain Roughhouse will appear. I don't think anyone was holding their breath waiting for the Asgardian, but he's one of Wolverine's antagonists in Madripoor.

Sutton had a couple of interesting things to say. Ghost Rider's destination (film or Disney+) depends on how Blade performs. He says Zack Snyder has been discussed as helming such a vehicle, but hasn't been approached. I don't think Snyder will enter the MCU fold (they've shown a strong preference for lesser known directors), but if given a good script and restrained from some of his bad habits, he has the visual styling for it at least.

Sutton says Marvel is interested in a Daughters of the Dragon Disney+ show with the original actors. Putting Mikey's inexplicable fondness for Simone Missick aside (whose incoherent character blundered through Luke Cage and The Defenders), Jessica Henwick was fine in her role, although you'd need to jettison her goofy Netflix backstory. That said, while I think Marvel might like the IP, this would be a long, long, long way off, and Missick is already on the old side for this kind of role (Henwick turns 29 this year, so that's not a concern). I don't see this happening. My problem with Sutton's default position of everything-but-Finn Jones-returning is that it comes across as wish fulfillment--how is Feige doing something different if he simply brings all the Netflix actors back? It's such a limiting approach. What I can see is extremely selective picks from those shows, but not down to the secondary characters like this.

Speaking of Netflix, THS (Santos) is making a habit of recycling old Sutton material, Tweeting out that Daredevil, Jessica Jones, the Punisher, and Kingpin will appear in the MCU with the Netflix actors. Santos says the latter will appear in Echo and might cameo in Hawkeye; he adds that both Iron Fist and Luke Cage will be re-cast (an idea that makes sense to me, but Sutton continues to say Mike Colter will return).

Cineverso (Alex de los Llanos) says that Hercules and his fellow Olympians (specifically Zeus and Ares) are coming, based on talking to someone who worked on The Eternals and/or Loki. The idea of Hercules appearing is a very old idea, with Daniel suggesting a Disney+ series way back in October, 2019, although he first came up via LotLB (TBK) back in July of that year for Thor 4. Sutton has also got in on the action (cf), echoing Daniel's notion of a Disney+ show (and see below).

I haven't indulged in speculation over who the Power Broker is in the show (I don't really care), but the common speculation is that it's Sharon Carter and that's certainly what Murphy believes. I'm not sure what the point would be--unless she's a Skrull--but it's food for thought. I'll also reiterate what can be seen above on the Google Trends graph--in terms of chatter, at least, the show lags well behind WandaVision (something also apparent from the viewing numbers that are coming from Nielsen--see below).

Incidentally, I was surprised to see an attack on the Flag-smashers as villains from Collider, who would be near the top of the list of Marvel apologists. While the article itself is a mixed bag in terms of analysis (the author is riding a particular hobbyhorse she's trying to hide by not being explicit), but her point here is on-target and is a sign that even among the hardcore fans this part of the plot isn't working.

More Nielsen numbers for WandaVision: it was 11th among streaming shows the week after the finale and dropped to 16th the next week, rebounding slightly at 15th afterwards. Falcon and the Winter Soldier's first week ranked 6th, which is surprisingly low (behind Ginny & Georgia, Grey's Anatomy, Criminal Minds, NCIS, Cocomelon, and Heartland).

Deadline (Dade Hayes) brings us the Sony-Disney deal (US-only again) that will allow Spider-Man to appear on Disney+ (in a move I think most of us expected). This doesn't debunk the idea of shows on Amazon.

Murphy did an AMA on Twitter while watching Nobody and said the following:

Yes to chances of Wanda being a villain
Heard Armour Wars is for 2022 [You can tell the person who copied his answers is either Canadian or British from the spelling]
Hasn’t heard anything regarding Silver Surfer
Other Netflix Defenders other than Daredevil coming to Movies/Disney+ [See the notions above from THS and Sutton]
Multiverse of Madness will have surprising cameos [Ralph Bohner and Daffy Duck incoming]
Not a word on Quake or AOS characters [This is not a surprise--I've long held that it's unlikely we'll ever see AOS characters]
Says Yes to MCU having their own Norman Osborn (I think) [See below]
Dafoe’s Goblin and Molina’s Ock are exclusively for [No Way Home]. No future appearances in the MCU (I actually ask this question) [This makes sense]
Confirms again Charlie Cox as Daredevil but gave vague response to question of him appearing in She-Hulk
Daredevil will have long-term presence in MCU [He's a popular character, so that makes sense]
Not sure about Thunderbolts set up in F&WS but hope they will
Doesn’t think Trickshot will show up in Hawkeye but would like to be wrong
Not sure if Cox’s Daredevil is the same Netflix version or rebooted in [No Way Home] [I'd be shocked if they maintained the Netflix continuity, granting that the sloppy writing in the first two Disney+ shows have also been shocking surprises]
No idea on Red Hulk appearing in MCU
Not all Villains on [No Way Home] will be from the Multiverse
Hasn’t heard anything regarding Dehaan for [No Way Home]
Hasn’t heard anything about a new Cap movie starring Sam
Norman Osborn coming “soonly”

Broadly this illuminates his opinions and what he does and doesn't have sources for (it is interesting that he doesn't back up Daniel's many claims). There's nothing surprising here.

Sutton Q&A

Repeated that Elektra is coming in a Daredevil context [If that's the case, given that Feige doesn't like repeating things, it's unlikely we'll see The Hand given how involved they were with both Daredevil, Iron Fist, and The Defenders--we can hope a more comic accurate version of her will appear]
Repeated there are plans for U. S. Agent (John Walker) as a member of Thunderbolts
Repeated that Jimmy Woo will form Agents of Atlas and will pop-up in Shang-Chi 2
Repeated Marvel wants Moon Knight to join the Midnight Sons
Repeated that most of the lead Netflix actors will come to the MCU, but in new continuity [see above]
Repeated that Excalibur will be a show and is still in development with Black Knight as the leader [cf]; then that Captain Britain will play an integral role in Black Knight movies [How that meshes with the idea of an Excalibur show he is in is not clear to me at all]
Repeated there are plans for Moondragon and Phyla-Vell to appear, but he's not sure when or where [The idea of the former is primordial, but the latter first showed up via Daniel back in September, 2019]
Repeated that Darkhawk will appear in a Nova film [cf]
Repeated that Shang-Chi will fight White Tiger at some point [An idea that goes back to LotLB's TBK back in July, 2019]
Claims there will be another season of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, but it will be called Captain America and the Winter Soldier [At this stage I can't say I'm looking forward to it]
Brother Voodoo will be part of Midnight Sons [The last time I can remember Sutton talking about Brother Voodoo was in December, when he believed he would probably get his own show--no talk about the team-up]

I can't help but point out Mikey has had some misses in his Q&A's (back in July he said the Namor rights were back at Marvel and a film was in development--neither of those things are true and when asked about it recently he said there was no news about Namor--where's the movie Mikey!).

More from our friends at 4chan and here:

I can reveal that Quake will be in Secret Invasion, however this will not be Chole Bennet. This makes it implicit that the Agents of SHIELD is not connected to the MCU franchise. Marvel Studios is looking for a young Chinese-American woman, aged 20-25, to play the role of Daisy Johnson in Secret Invasion. The role will be more similar to Hawkeye in Thor or Maria Hill in Avengers, a secondary command character who answers to Fury. I have no other information at this time, just this specific casting. It would be inaccurate to call this a “re-cast.” It’s only a re-cast in the same way Andrew Garfield was for Spider-Man or Christian Bale was for Batman, it’s a new version of that character for that world.

And

So with regards to the casting of Secret Invasion, Marvel is casting for a young woman of Chinese ethnicity, aged 20-25, to play the role of Daisy Johnson aka Quake. One leaker stated that “recast” is technically inaccurate as this is a new version of the character for the MCU, separate from the Agents of SHEILD universe. Like the comics, despite being young, you get the idea she has been at this “for a while,” compared to the relatively older Chole Bennet version. For reference, the comics note she already had Level 10 clearance at age 17. The role is minor. Saying she is like Hawkeye in Thor or Maria Hill is inaccurate, as this is a show so she will have multiple scenes. I’ve been told to think it closer to Jimmy Woo in WandaVision, a character meant to drive the plot while opening the door to more appearances. To go off that statement, leakers believe her appearance will set up Agents of Atlas in some form similar to Woo in [WandaVision], but that’s just speculation. The point is this is a new Daisy Johnson played by a new actress for a new interpretation of the character

The two broadly agree that a rebooted Quake is coming and Agents of SHIELD will be jettisoned to the dustbin of history. This makes sense to me (as does the idea that Agents of Atlas is just speculation), but there's no specific reason to believe either of these folks have inside information to back it up.

4chan claims Rachael Taylor is in talks with Marvel to return as Hellcat for an episodic Disney+ series; as far as we know only She-Hulk would qualify among what's been announced. This fits the endless Netflix speculation (see above), but I again find it hard to believe Feige wants to just copy/paste all that material into the MCU. I quite like Taylor, but the bizarre things done to her character in the second and third season of Jessica Jones are best forgotten.